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Author Topic: FTTC - Interleaved again!  (Read 1475 times)

HitmanAlex

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FTTC - Interleaved again!
« on: August 24, 2021, 11:49:09 AM »

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone could let me know if these graphs are showing any reason to why I have been interleaved?

I've had many Openreach engineers out and the last one performed a ton of tests and one which was in red and required a visit to the ECI Cab and then to the exchange to change out some cables I believe.

ISP: Sky FTTC Super Fast

Max Speed - 52Mb/s download / 17.5Mb/s upload

Router: Zyxel (VMG8924-B10A) - This router was a preferred choice for ECI Cab's

Custom Firmware: johnson custom firmware (running v2 dsl which also supports retransmission)

MTU 1500 (believe this is also due to baby jumbo frames)

CAB: ECI - No Retransmission / G.inp

















               
====================================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
                G.Vector:   Disable
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   1 day: 2 hours: 18 minutes
====================================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     17.518 Mbps       49.959 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     17.495 Mbps       49.869 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        6.0 dB            6.1 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        6.8 dBm           6.9 dBm
           Receive Power:       -7.0 dBm          -8.9 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          20.3 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     17.570 Mbps       58.511 Mbps
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      U4      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):    2.7    27.9    43.5     N/A     N/A    14.9    35.6    55.9   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    2.6    27.7    43.4     N/A     N/A    19.5    35.4    55.9   
        SNR Margin(dB):    6.4    6.1    6.0     N/A     N/A    6.1    6.0    6.1   
         TX Power(dBm):   -4.5   -14.7    6.5     N/A     N/A    10.5    7.2    7.4   
====================================================================================

            VDSL Counters

           Downstream        Upstream
Since Link time = 18 min 41 sec
FEC:      84590      19
CRC:      36      0
ES:      12      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 4 min 13 sec
FEC:      0      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:      6521      0
CRC:      8      0
ES:      2      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 19 min 13 sec
FEC:      23674      0
CRC:      24      0
ES:      7      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:      60916      19
CRC:      12      0
ES:      5      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      30      30
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Total time = 1 days 2 hours 19 min 13 sec
FEC:      84590      19
CRC:      36      0
ES:      12      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      30      30
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
====================================================================================

Thank you for all your input :)

Updated: I've also attached vmgGraph's data, The night before I did a download of 27GB's. 23/08/2021.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12t11y9rVx4EiGrffVZUtx-3P09g4CA-u/view?usp=sharing
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 11:58:02 AM by HitmanAlex »
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2021, 03:22:27 PM »

Welcome to the kitz forum.  :)

I was wondering if anyone could let me know if these graphs are showing any reason to why I have been interleaved?


I cannot see any obvious reason for the circuit to be operating in interleaved mode. What convinces you that it is operating as such?
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j0hn

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2021, 03:49:03 PM »

I cannot see any obvious reason for the circuit to be operating in interleaved mode. What convinces you that it is operating as such?

Quote
Actual Delay:          0 ms              8 ms
Actual INP:        0.0 symbols       3.0 symbols

As for why it's interleaved, no idea.
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Ixel

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2021, 04:07:27 PM »

I'm equally puzzled as to why it has become interleaved. I can't see any clear indications as to the cause from the data you've shared. Perhaps your line has had a DLM reset or has been taken off of the G.INP trial? My only guesses.
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HitmanAlex

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2021, 05:49:21 PM »

I'm equally puzzled as to why it has become interleaved. I can't see any clear indications as to the cause from the data you've shared. Perhaps your line has had a DLM reset or has been taken off of the G.INP trial? My only guesses.

Was never apart of the trial:(, I even asked Sky to put me on the list but it seems only plusnet has interaction with its users for this about (10 or so people got it).

Welcome to the kitz forum.  :)

I cannot see any obvious reason for the circuit to be operating in interleaved mode. What convinces you that it is operating as such?

As J0hn has rightfully pointed out 8ms delay increase.

I'm am no expert in this area and i've learned it all from kitz forums and internet, however for me the graphs don't make much sense to me i don't know what's good or what's bad unless i've seen it before :S.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2021, 11:14:13 PM »

You'd likely need to see the stats/graphs BEFORE it was interleaved, to get some idea of what might have triggered it.
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Chrysalis

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2021, 12:11:22 AM »

Alex beat me to it.

What "probably" happened is a burst of errors in the day leading up to the DLM action.

If we can see the 24-48h period before you became interleaved, we will probably find the reason.
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HitmanAlex

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2021, 10:13:03 AM »

You'd likely need to see the stats/graphs BEFORE it was interleaved, to get some idea of what might have triggered it.

Alex beat me to it.

What "probably" happened is a burst of errors in the day leading up to the DLM action.

If we can see the 24-48h period before you became interleaved, we will probably find the reason.

Thank you both for your input! I can say that after looking at the graphs in the morning i could see a huge amount of CRC errors that night. I'm afraid due to not saving the data and rebooting the router I don't have that data to provide but it was by no means a large amount of errors.

I assume now  it will be several days / weeks before potentially i come out of interleaving again, I seriously cannot be bothered anymore with getting OR engineers out through Sky as majority of them do not care (well the ones i had don't) I even have to tell them to reset if i've been hard capped because they would prefer you to wait several years for DLM to reset and retune/retrain.

Apparently Fibre is being worked on in my area as per Openreach website, however the message below is pretty much "Yeah but when" along with expected to be completed by 2026.



I don't see much activity on one.network site for Telephone works, However about a month ago there was the big open reach vans and it looked like they was planning deployment.
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HitmanAlex

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2021, 10:17:17 AM »

Today's Main Stats Snippet

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Chrysalis

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2021, 05:36:12 AM »

Its just a waiting game might be a few days, might be a few weeks, and engineers may put you down as no fault if the line is performing within spec.   So not advisable to book one just for been interleaved.

A few people have had success of a quicker recovery by capping the line rate.
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HitmanAlex

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2021, 10:11:26 AM »

Its just a waiting game might be a few days, might be a few weeks, and engineers may put you down as no fault if the line is performing within spec.   So not advisable to book one just for been interleaved.

A few people have had success of a quicker recovery by capping the line rate.

Thanks for the reply Chrysalis,

Given the below I should be well in the green to not be kept on interleaved?

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j0hn

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2021, 11:13:46 AM »

Being "in the green" isn't usually enough to have Interleaving removed.

On the "Speed" DLM profile anything under 288 ES per 24 hours is meant to be ILQ green.
However I've never seen Interleaving removed on a line with roughly 100 ES per day.

In my experience a line needs to be much nearer single digit ES per day for Interleaving to be removed.

As Chrysalis mentions above, capping the downstream sync rate can lower the ES numbers which can speed up Interleaving being removed.
On some lines a cap is necessary as without it the line will be stuck interleaved.

At your current ES rate (around 15 ES per 24 hours) I would expect the line to return to fastpath.
How long it takes depends on the lines history.
It's usually 2, 4, 8 or 11 days.
If you're still interleaved after 11 days then you will need to cap the sync rate.
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HitmanAlex

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2021, 01:35:08 PM »

Thanks for that info j0hn :)

This is some odd stuff i've seen here and there note that i am on a ECI Cab with no g.inp.

So i should be getting 6db snr margin for both Upload and Download however upload is going as low as 4.9?



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HitmanAlex

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2021, 05:20:25 PM »

               
====================================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
                G.Vector:   Disable
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   5 days: 5 hours: 3 minutes
====================================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     17.697 Mbps       49.985 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     17.674 Mbps       49.895 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        4.9 dB            6.0 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        6.8 dBm           6.9 dBm
           Receive Power:       -7.2 dBm          -8.8 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          20.3 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     16.373 Mbps       58.564 Mbps
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      U4      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):    2.7    27.9    43.5     N/A     N/A    14.9    35.6    55.9   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    2.6    27.8    43.4     N/A     N/A    19.4    35.3    55.9   
        SNR Margin(dB):    5.4    5.0    4.9     N/A     N/A    5.9    6.0    6.1   
         TX Power(dBm):   -4.7   -14.7    6.5     N/A     N/A    10.5    7.2    7.4   
====================================================================================
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g3uiss

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Re: FTTC - Interleaved again!
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2021, 05:32:40 PM »

The SNRM will always fluctuate. On ECI the median SNRM is 6.3. My goes down to 4 on occasions. By definition itís not fixed
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