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[tiffy]

With TalkTalk's high level of investment in LLU associated exchange hardware would have thought that they would have been one of the last ISP's to be encouraging/promoting ADSL to VDSL migration or am I missing something here?

Of course with the ever increasing rate of FTTP migration as it becomes available and the associated option to drop land line completely or migrate to VOIP, is TT's LLU exchange hardware likely to become obsolete/under subscribed relatively quickly anyway?

@b*cat:

I don't expect that to happen as I already have excess SNR headroom on both DS & US and I'm hitting "the (upper limit) buffers" of the 40/10 Mbps product.

Your line on VDSL 40/10 provision has slightly better speed predictions and very similar characteristics (from the stat's & snapshots provided) to my line, also on 40/10 provision, after ISP change last December (DLM reset) DS SNRM quite happily migrated from 6 to 3dB in 1dB steps at approx. 2 day intervals, lost DS G.Inp re-tx low profile on the way but this can be "fixed" after DS 3dB SNRM is achieved.

[burakkucat]

With TalkTalk's high level of investment in LLU associated exchange hardware would have thought that they would have been one of the last ISP's to be encouraging/promoting ADSL to VDSL migration . . .

That is exactly my thought but, clearly, there must be some advantage to TalkTalk in migrating legacy (ADSL2) services to the Openreach VDSL2 products.

@b*cat:Your line on VDSL 40/10 provision has slightly better speed predictions and very similar characteristics (from the stat's & snapshots provided) to my line, also on 40/10 provision, after ISP change last December (DLM reset) DS SNRM quite happily migrated from 6 to 3dB in 1dB steps at approx. 2 day intervals, lost DS G.Inp re-tx low profile on the way but this can be "fixed" after DS 3dB SNRM is achieved.

Are you saying that our services are similar, mine with a target SNRM of 6 dB and yours after the target SNRM was reduced to 3 dB?

[Ronski]

Perhaps there are not many ADSL connections on TT on the exchange and it's more cost effective to move those remaining over to VDSL

https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/01/openreach_hikes_cost_of_legacy/

Speaking to The Register, Alex Bloor, general manager of ISP Andrews and Arnold, described these price rises as “not actually crazy,” and added that older products tend to be more expensive to maintain, citing the example of ADSL via a DSLAM versus a more modern fibre to the cabinet connection.

“As more and more customers park themselves on ports of VDSL gear in cabinets, so the number left on ADSL DSLAMs falls. Eventually you reach a point where you’re running and supporting a whole DSLAM in an exchange for four customers

What's the wholesale pricing of ADSL compared to VDSL?

[tiffy]

@b*cat:

Are you saying that our services are similar, mine with a target SNRM of 6 dB and yours after the target SNRM was reduced to 3 dB?

Just recounting how my VDSL2 connection and quite a number of other forum patrons lines behaved after a DLM reset, the common factor being Huawei DSLAM's.

[burakkucat]

What's the wholesale pricing of ADSL compared to VDSL?

Perhaps CarlT will be able to enlighten us, please?

[burakkucat]

@b*cat:
Just recounting how my VDSL2 connection and quite a number of other forum patrons lines behaved after a DLM reset, the common factor being Huawei DSLAM's.

Ah, I see. Thank you.

[meritez]

Something possibly related:
https://www.openreach.com/news/openreach-announces-special-offer-for-communications-providers-to-drive-adoption-of-full-fibre-broadband/

[Alex Atkin UK]

Something possibly related:
https://www.openreach.com/news/openreach-announces-special-offer-for-communications-providers-to-drive-adoption-of-full-fibre-broadband/

Not directly, as it specifically says that is to discourage moving customers to FTTC, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a similar scheme to at least move people from ADSL to FTTC where FTTP is not planned any time soon.

[kitz]

What's the wholesale pricing of ADSL compared to VDSL?

Difficult to direct compare due to TT ADSL being LLU and therefore passed over to their MSAN with voice telephony.  I have included some prices though which may help

LLU

MPF Rental (incl. SML2 in tariff)          90.42 (7.54)


GEA FTTC

Up to 18Mbit/s downstream and up to 2Mbit/s upstream    48.48   (4.04)
Up to 40Mbit/s downstream and up to 2Mbit/s upstream    83.52   (6.96)


WBC


Standard End User Access Rental – ADSL2+ (up to 24Mb)      £5.88

Standard EU Rental (FTTC 18Mbps Downstream, 2Mbps Upstream)   £9.75
Standard EU Rental (FTTC 40Mbps Downstream, 10Mbps Upstream)   £14.00
Standard EU Rental (FTTC 55Mbps Downstream, 10Mbps Upstream)   £15.00
Standard EU Rental (FTTC 80Mbps Downstream, 20Mbps Upstream)   £16.00

[burakkucat]

This is the first time (and it will also be the last time) that I post with an attachment showing the result a throughput speed test. So, just for completeness --

[Alex Atkin UK]

Must be a nice upgrade.

[Weaver]

Congratulations, my friend. An upgrade beyond my imagination. I’ve never even seen FTTC.

[Ronski]

So it might potentially be cheaper for them to supply VDSL, although surprised they went with 40/10 and not a slower product.

[jelv]

If they went with a slower product they'd run the risk of users switching to a supplier offering higher speeds. Putting them on a slower speed along with a communication of "we're moving you to a fibre connection for no extra cost and your expected speed is Xmbps. You can upgrade to 40/10 for an extra £n per month" would be the only sensible way to do it.

[burakkucat]

On the cost front, I can't see that there has been any financial advantage to TalkTalk. 

Last Monday, both the telephony and Internet services originated from the TalkTalk owned MSAN located in EABSE. The pair carrying my services exited the MSAN and went to the HDF. A link from the HDF took the pair to the MDF and so to a chunky E-side cable which exited through the cable chamber. The E-side cable carrying my services reached the PCP (numbered 28) and the pair were cross-connected to a pair in the D-side cable leading to DP1023. From the DP an aerial drop takes both the telephony and Internet services to an NTE5/A + SSFP in "The Cattery".

Today, Monday, my telephone service originates from the TalkTalk owned MSAN located in EABSE. The pair carrying my telephony service exits the MSAN and goes to the HDF. A link from the HDF takes the pair to the MDF and so to a chunky E-side cable which exits through the cable chamber. The E-side cable carrying my telephony service reaches PCP (numbered 28) where it is connected to a pair transiting through the first tie-cable to Krone blocks in the "fibre" cabinet. After passing through a low-pass filter, a pair from the line-card of a Huawei MT5603T MSAN (configured just as a simple DSLAM) is connected to the EU side of the low-pass filter and now the combined services transit back to the PCP via a pair in the second tie-cable. That pair in the second tie-cable is connected to a pair in the D-side cable which leads to DP1023. From the DP an aerial drop takes both the telephony and Internet services to an NTE5/A + SSFP in "The Cattery".

As I have had to type more words, so I expect there to be a bigger financial cost to TalkTalk . . .