Topic: Are these stats unusual? (Read 1130 times)

JackRabbit · « **on:** June 28, 2021, 02:49:22 PM »

Hi everyone,

As a newbie, I don't normally like registering onto a new forum (for me at least) before jumping straight into an issue, but on this occasion needs must.

I recently moved providers from Zen to iDNET for no other reason than the service from Zen was not what it once was. I'd had a couple of issues and they simply weren't dealt with quickly or efficiently. I'd heard good things about iDNET and made the jump, using the opportunity to switch to a SoGEA product with VOIP. I can't say I'm having issues as such; at least my connection is relatively stable. However, I think this may be due to the current modem performing a very good job in maintaining a stable line. The reason I say this is that it performs well whilst using a ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A, but I'm unable to establish a successful link with either my ZyXEL VMG1312-B10D or HH5 running OpenWRT.

I'd love to gain your thoughts on the stats/graphs below (whilst using the VMG8924-B10A) -

What I find particularly odd/worrying is the gap between Band 1 and Bands 2 & 3 on the downstream, but also the high CRC error count. The DS snrm does fluctuate anything between ~3.0 and ~6.5, but I guess that could be normal throughout the course of a day.

I'm approximately 500-600yds from the Huawei cabinet and get a good download speed, although my upload is only two-thirds (sometimes half) of what it used to be with Zen.

I should add that during the install, and in order to minimise disruption to my landline number, the service from iDNET was run in parallel to Zen. This was done using the same cable coming into the house, albeit via a second copper pair (5c backbox and Mk IV faceplate). NB: the original line is now disconnected.

Finally, here's the xdslctl info --stats data -

Quote

xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 200000
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 9039 Kbps, Downstream rate = 84859 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 9039 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79953 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 4.6 6.4
Attn(dB): 21.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 5.8

VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 235 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 42
R: 10 16
S: 0.0000 0.8366
L: 20950 2429
D: 8 1
I: 246 127
N: 246 254
Q: 8 0
V: 1 0
RxQueue: 90 0
TxQueue: 18 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 18 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 186 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 5.3333 0.0000
L: 48 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0

Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 1375586
OHFErr: 38294 216
RS: 3092985912 2990611
RSCorr: 1152794190 879
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 67580575 0
OHFErr: 15 0
RS: 810966164 0
RSCorr: 97693 0
RSUnCorr: 17 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 122505896 0
rtx_c: 45073226 0
rtx_uc: 219235 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 407 0
minEFTR: 79179 0
errFreeBits: 1312647774 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 2291357680 0
Data Cells: 614110568 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 28201 211
SES: 60 0
UAS: 388 377
AS: 1085810

Bearer 0
INP: 53.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 8.81
OR: 0.01 29.03
AgR: 80080.68 9068.54

Bearer 1
INP: 4.00 0.00
INPRein: 4.00 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 95.62 0.01
AgR: 95.62 0.01

Bitswap: 458714/532548 14937/15234

Total time = 12 days 13 hours 43 min 18 sec
FEC: 1152794190 879
CRC: 38294 216
ES: 28201 211
SES: 60 0
UAS: 388 377
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 18 sec
FEC: 598001 0
CRC: 32 1
ES: 26 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 677651 1
CRC: 42 0
ES: 29 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 13 hours 43 min 18 sec
FEC: 52763679 32
CRC: 1913 5
ES: 1442 5
SES: 8 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 75635728 72
CRC: 2937 23
ES: 2175 23
SES: 6 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 12 days 13 hours 37 min 1 sec
FEC: 1152794190 879
CRC: 38294 216
ES: 28201 211
SES: 60 0
UAS: 11 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

NOTE: HLog, QLN and pbParams info is also available, should it be helpful.

I raised a query with iDNET who, to be honest, weren't much more helpful than Zen. Their suggestion being to have OR investigate with the possibility that it cost £150 should no errors be found.

Any input would be appreciated.

Best regards

Jack

JackRabbit · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2021, 02:57:03 PM »

For context, I thought I would add some data from when the VMG1312-B10D is connected -

Quote

xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 9782 Kbps, Downstream rate = 83596 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 9782 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 4.8 6.2
Attn(dB): 21.2 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 6.4

VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 162 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 45
R: 8 16
S: 0.0000 0.7732
L: 21128 2628
D: 8 1
I: 171 127
N: 171 254
Q: 8 0
V: 2 0
RxQueue: 135 0
TxQueue: 27 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 27 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 186 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 5.3333 0.0000
L: 48 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0

Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 7711
OHFErr: 4 0
RS: 4061472 346870
RSCorr: 38416 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 4171 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 49307 0
RSCorr: 60 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 38598021 0
rtx_c: 2351 0
rtx_uc: 18 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 1 0
minEFTR: 77994 0
errFreeBits: 81269 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 10247097 0
Data Cells: 130 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 142 142
AS: 67

Bearer 0
INP: 55.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 8.73
OR: 0.01 29.31
AgR: 80244.76 9811.50

Bearer 1
INP: 4.00 0.00
INPRein: 4.00 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 95.62 0.01
AgR: 95.62 0.01

Bitswap: 34/35 1/1

Total time = 3 min 29 sec
FEC: 38416 0
CRC: 4 0
ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 142 142
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 29 sec
FEC: 38416 0
CRC: 4 0
ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 142 142
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 3 min 29 sec
FEC: 38416 0
CRC: 4 0
ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 142 142
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 1 min 7 sec
FEC: 38416 0
CRC: 4 0
ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

Ignore the first hour, as it's midway through the two-hour slot that I switch hardware.

Regards

Jack

j0hn · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2021, 03:59:29 PM »

That's a very high number of ES on the downstream for a line running with G.INP.

Do you have Homeplugs/powerline adapters running or are you connected via an extension socket?

JackRabbit · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2021, 04:22:50 PM »

Quote from: j0hn on June 28, 2021, 03:59:29 PM

That's a very high number of ES on the downstream for a line running with G.INP.

Do you have Homeplugs/powerline adapters running or are you connected via an extension socket?

Hi J0hn,

No, no Homeplug/Powerline adapters in use, and no extensions.

Upon entry into the house the BT cable goes to a 78A junction box (albeit that the terminal strip has been removed and the wires jelly crimped), then straight to the brand new NTE5C and MK4 faceplate. I recrimped the wires within the 78A, as I had spare jelly connectors, but no difference. I also tried a known working NTE5A and MK3 faceplate, with no tangible change. The CW1308 is no more than two years old and is safely away from objects and/or other cabling that may cause interference.

I know my stuff when it comes to enterprise LAN/WAN, but never really got into residential connectivity. I've been browsing the forum looking for ideas/pointers, but my stats don't seem to mirror anything I could find.

Regards

Jack.

kitz · « **Reply #4 on:** June 29, 2021, 03:19:45 AM »

If you are getting a high amount of E/S, it may be worthwhile putting DSLstats on and monitoring to see if there is any pattern when the errors happen.
You'd need to be graphing your SNRmargin to see if there's any times in the day when it changes.

If you want to post your QLN and hlog graphs then someone will likely to be able to see if they can spot anything obvious on those.

---

ETA

re

Quote

The DS snrm does fluctuate anything between ~3.0 and ~6.5, but I guess that could be normal throughout the course of a day.

Sorry wasnt clear from that if you were graphing. If you are, could you provide a sample showing the variance - ie does it fall suddenly, gradually or spikes

tubaman · « **Reply #5 on:** June 29, 2021, 08:02:08 AM »

As you had the two services running in parallel you will now be on both a different pair all the way back to the cabinet and a on a different port in the cabinet - ie everything from your house back to the cabinet is different to before.
When you were with Zen was the service stable and running at a much higher rate on the upstream side, as I'm wondering if the new pair they've given you is just not a very good one? The downstream SNR fluctuations of up to 3.5dB you are getting also sound rather large and might be indicative of a fault somewhere.

JackRabbit · « **Reply #6 on:** June 29, 2021, 09:46:15 AM »

Quote from: kitz on June 29, 2021, 03:19:45 AM

If you are getting a high amount of E/S, it may be worthwhile putting DSLstats on and monitoring to see if there is any pattern when the errors happen.
You'd need to be graphing your SNRmargin to see if there's any times in the day when it changes.

If you want to post your QLN and hlog graphs then someone will likely to be able to see if they can spot anything obvious on those.

Hi kitz,

Thanks. For some reason the graphs I posted yesterday disappeared from view, so I've hosted them elsewhere and re-edited the links.

I've also included the Hlog and QLN graphs as requested -

Regards

Jack

JackRabbit · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2021, 10:05:00 AM »

Quote from: tubaman on June 29, 2021, 08:02:08 AM

As you had the two services running in parallel you will now be on both a different pair all the way back to the cabinet and a on a different port in the cabinet - ie everything from your house back to the cabinet is different to before.
When you were with Zen was the service stable and running at a much higher rate on the upstream side, as I'm wondering if the new pair they've given you is just not a very good one? The downstream SNR fluctuations of up to 3.5dB you are getting also sound rather large and might be indicative of a fault somewhere.

You're right, it will be different and my feeling is that the new copper pair is possibly damaged in some way. I guess I was looking for some validation from the good folks on here before committing to a call-out. I must admit I didn't have a lot of confidence in the OR engineer that attended on-site, but I think I've done everything to elimate elements within the house as a culprit. OpenReach also worked on the pole just outside my property as part of the install. It may be that they've not re-sealed the box very well and left it exposed to the weather.

Oddly, whilst reading the replies from kitz and yourself this monring, the line suffered a resync. Here's the resultant ds snrm graph -

Regards

Jack

Chrysalis · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2021, 07:22:08 PM »

I used to think I was ok at analysing graphs but the guys who can work out so much from hlog data are amazing.

meritez · « **Reply #9 on:** June 29, 2021, 08:48:04 PM »

Has your upstream ever synced higher than 9Mbps?

JackRabbit · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2021, 08:48:00 AM »

Quote from: meritez on June 29, 2021, 08:48:04 PM

Has your upstream ever synced higher than 9Mbps?

It typically sits around the 9Mbps mark, whereas I used to get a very assured 12Mbps or more with Zen.

Chrysalis · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2021, 09:41:32 AM »

yeah that upstream seems very low considering what you get on the downstream, to me that is unusual.

News:

Author Topic: Are these stats unusual? (Read 1130 times)

JackRabbit

Are these stats unusual?

JackRabbit

Re: Are these stats unusual?

j0hn

Re: Are these stats unusual?

JackRabbit

Re: Are these stats unusual?

kitz

Re: Are these stats unusual?

tubaman

Re: Are these stats unusual?

JackRabbit

Re: Are these stats unusual?

JackRabbit

Re: Are these stats unusual?

Chrysalis

Re: Are these stats unusual?

meritez

Re: Are these stats unusual?

JackRabbit

Re: Are these stats unusual?

Chrysalis

Re: Are these stats unusual?