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Author Topic: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.  (Read 5170 times)

burakkucat

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2021, 06:37:43 PM »

 :shoot:  NTE5C (& SSFP)  :whip:
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Chrysalis

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2021, 10:09:41 PM »

some people dont like then? :)
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2021, 11:34:46 PM »

A lot of the MK4 faceplates are a loose fit (mine isn't) and some people find their line performs worse (mine also doesn't but I have no phones on that line).

Personally I find the RJ11 connector fits better than the MK3 and I much prefer them being side by side rather than vertical.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2021, 06:51:03 PM »

For the curious, I didnt get any compensation for the missed appointment even though it was mentioned in an email to AAISP.

AAISP are monitoring the line for a period of time as well.
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underzone

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2021, 01:22:41 PM »

Nice clean BQM graph there Chris. Are you using any kind of traffic shaper or limiter in pfsense?
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Chrysalis

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2021, 01:28:04 PM »

I am using dummynet limiters.

I switched from fq_codel to round robin on my main limiter which is currently only a few mbit below vs my max throughput.

There is also a second limiter fq_codel based for my consoles to restrict their speeds.

I use fq_codel on the upstream I think its set to around 18 and half mbit.

There is some tuning of the variables as well but I dont have that info to hand.

I have actually eased of the limiting, it used to be much more aggressive on the downstream but I realised it was giving me no more benefit than just having the extra bandwidth available, so now the firewall will let streams etc. get very close to line speed.

Steam downloads go through the main pipe just below line speed pipe, but are throttled within steam itself to 5 mega bytes/sec.

The opnsense setup I have been working on actually has traffic been passed through a linux device so I can use the superior cake shaper.

I also have set aaisp to not rate limit (110%), so its done within my network.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 01:32:14 PM by Chrysalis »
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2021, 03:45:31 PM »

Its generally advised to rate limit downstream at the ISP and upstream at your end though.  Because rate limiting is of limited value if your pipe is already saturated from the ISP.

I disabled limiters as I found they weren't working correctly on dual-WAN.  I think this was a pfSense bug that crept in recently.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2021, 07:35:05 PM »

That's what I did when I first joined AAISP, I have been tinkering with things over time, and what I posted is just how things are at the moment, it is always subject to change.
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underzone

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2021, 07:45:31 PM »

Thanks Chrysalis, can you post your pfsense: Diagnostics, Limiter Info please.
I may have a go with your settings. I am currently using this:

Code: [Select]
Limiter Information
Limiters:
00001:  15.000 Mbit/s    0 ms burst 0
q131073  50 sl. 0 flows (1 buckets) sched 65537 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0 droptail
 sched 65537 type FIFO flags 0x0 0 buckets 0 active
00002:  70.000 Mbit/s    0 ms burst 0
q131074  50 sl. 0 flows (1 buckets) sched 65538 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0 droptail
 sched 65538 type FIFO flags 0x0 0 buckets 0 active


Schedulers:
00001:  15.000 Mbit/s    0 ms burst 0
q65537  50 sl. 0 flows (1 buckets) sched 1 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0 droptail
 sched 1 type FQ_CODEL flags 0x0 0 buckets 0 active
 FQ_CODEL target 3ms interval 5ms quantum 1514 limit 10240 flows 1024 NoECN
   Children flowsets: 1
00002:  70.000 Mbit/s    0 ms burst 0
q65538  50 sl. 0 flows (1 buckets) sched 2 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0 droptail
 sched 2 type FQ_CODEL flags 0x0 0 buckets 0 active
 FQ_CODEL target 3ms interval 5ms quantum 1514 limit 10240 flows 1024 NoECN
   Children flowsets: 2

TIA
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Chrysalis

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2021, 08:05:30 PM »

yep I will post it here, I have a config right now that also moves the flows to the queues part of the flow instead of scheduler, so the output will look a bit odd.

Code: [Select]
Limiters:
00001:  73.999 Mbit/s    0 ms burst 0
q131073 6410 sl. 0 flows (1 buckets) sched 65537 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0  AQM CoDel target 5ms interval 100ms NoECN
 sched 65537 type FIFO flags 0x0 0 buckets 0 active
00002:  18.779 Mbit/s    0 ms burst 0
q131074  50 sl. 0 flows (1 buckets) sched 65538 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0 droptail
 sched 65538 type FIFO flags 0x0 0 buckets 0 active
00003:  30.720 Mbit/s    0 ms burst 0
q131075  50 sl. 0 flows (1 buckets) sched 65539 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0 droptail
 sched 65539 type FIFO flags 0x0 0 buckets 0 active


Schedulers:
00001:  73.999 Mbit/s    0 ms burst 0
 sched 1 type RR flags 0x0 0 buckets 1 active
   Children flowsets: 1
BKT Prot ___Source IP/port____ ____Dest. IP/port____ Tot_pkt/bytes Pkt/Byte Drp
  0 ip           0.0.0.0/0             0.0.0.0/0     6406504 9245283343  0    0 67485
00002:  18.779 Mbit/s    0 ms burst 0
q65538  50 sl. 0 flows (1 buckets) sched 2 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0 droptail
 sched 2 type FQ_CODEL flags 0x0 0 buckets 0 active
 FQ_CODEL target 5ms interval 100ms quantum 300 limit 1601 flows 1024 NoECN
   Children flowsets: 2
00003:  30.720 Mbit/s    0 ms burst 0
q65539  20 sl. 0 flows (1 buckets) sched 3 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0 droptail
 sched 3 type FQ_CODEL flags 0x0 0 buckets 0 active
 FQ_CODEL target 5ms interval 100ms quantum 1514 limit 10240 flows 1024 NoECN
   Children flowsets: 3


Queues:
q00001  20 sl. 5 flows (1024 buckets) sched 1 weight 1 lmax 1500 pri 0 droptail
    mask:  0x00 0xffff0000/0x0000 -> 0x00000000/0x0000
BKT Prot ___Source IP/port____ ____Dest. IP/port____ Tot_pkt/bytes Pkt/Byte Drp
 69 ip        158.69.0.0/0             0.0.0.0/0        1       52  0    0   0
212        ip       0                         2a00:1450:4009::/0                                           ::/0        2      120  0    0   0
254 ip       162.254.0.0/0             0.0.0.0/0        1       40  0    0   0
101 ip       151.101.0.0/0             0.0.0.0/0        1       52  0    0   0
233 ip         3.233.0.0/0             0.0.0.0/0        4      401  0    0   0
q00002  50 sl. 0 flows (1 buckets) sched 2 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0 droptail
q00003  50 sl. 0 flows (256 buckets) sched 3 weight 0 lmax 0 pri 0 droptail
    mask:  0x00 0xffff0000/0x0000 -> 0x00000000/0x0000

I should point out I patched pfsense with a custom patch to read manual limiter rules I inject to make things quicker.

I will post them below as well, there should be a way to get a matching configuration in the GUI, bear in mind I am not saying this is some kind of god like config, I only since my line fault was fixed decided to try this approach of making the main pipe only a little bit below the maximum throughput.  It wont be good enough for multi threaded downloads that will have too much spill over, thats why I have the 30mbit pipe for ps5/xbox, and I cap in steam.  I might raise that 30mbit pipe to 40mbit however, as that was set when the main pipe was 67mbit.

Code: [Select]
#71780
#73999, without shaping 77mnit on dumeter, 74.5 tbb, with shaping 74.8 dumeter, 72 single threaded, 71.1 tbb
pipe 1 config  bw 73999Kb queue 6410 codel target 5ms interval 100ms noecn
sched 1 config pipe 1 type rr
queue 1 config pipe 1 queue 20 buckets 1024 mask src-ip6 /48 src-ip 0xffff0000 droptail

pipe 2 config  bw 18779Kb droptail
sched 2 config pipe 2 type fq_codel target 5ms interval 100ms quantum 300 limit 1601 flows 1024 noecn
queue 2 config pipe 2 droptail

pipe 3 config  bw 30720Kb queue 50 droptail
sched 3 config pipe 3 queue 20 type fq_codel target 5ms interval 100ms quantum 1514 limit 10240 flows 1024 noecn
queue 3 config pipe 3 mask src-ip6 /56 src-ip 0xffff0000 droptail
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 08:27:16 PM by Chrysalis »
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underzone

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2021, 08:42:44 PM »

Very interesting, thanks!
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kitz

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2021, 05:02:40 AM »

So is that why in the early days they limited what speed you could order so strictly, even though your line technically could easily handle it?

For example initially I was only allowed to order 500Kbit, later they allowed 1Mbit and I even tried for 2Mbit which was refused - but somehow they accidentally processed the order anyway and I did indeed get 2Mbit.

Not really.  That was before rate adaptive dsl (radsl) technology became available.   Back then the modems didn't specifically analyse the channels & bit rates to work out the maximum speed that the line was capable of syncing at. 

The speed was fixed rate at the DSLAM and therefore the modem could either sync.... or it couldn't.  If there was insufficient bit load to maintain 2Mbps then the line would just not be able to connect all at.   So there were basic rules in place, mostly based on the attenuation which dictated whether you could get 256/512/1000/2000 kbps.   Obviously there were a few lines which may have had slightly better SNR and sometimes BT could be persuaded to try you on the higher speed. In those days your SNR was very important in deciding the max speed. 

Maxdsl was the first rate adaptive product offered by BTw.  Maxdsl allowed the line to negotiate a sync speed based upon the current line conditions by analysing each frequency bin based upon the target SNRM of 6dB.  Not all modems were able work properly with maxdsl without a f/w update.  iirc thats when I ditched my Solwise SAR110?

adsl2+ natively uses rate adaptive technology, but it also has better coding algorithms for overheads than adsl1 & adsl2 allowing a max 24Mbps.  In theory, the rate adaptive process should have been not much different from any of the adsl2+ products offered by most of the LLU ISPs at the time.  Even though the superior coding algorithm allowed adsl2+ to be more flexible with the target SNRM, most stuck to 6dB or 9dB (Tiscali).  Many of the BTw Maxdsl DSLAMs were actually MSANs capable of adsl2, but we are talking the days when backhaul bandwidth was still a problem - mostly using ATM 155/622Mbps pipes.

The exceptions were (1) Be* who technically didn't have a true DLM, but allowed a target SNRM of 3dB to be set at the MSAN.... and (2) I think it was UKO who  would allow 3dB profiles and also dabbled with SRA. 

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kitz

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2021, 05:20:18 AM »


There was 4 faults he said he fixed, he said two of them the cable was disintegrating when he touched, the other two were joints, all located close to my property he swapped out the cable close to my house.


Excellent news, glad you got it sorted.  :) 
Had a feeling it may be joint related or damaged cable due to all that noise.  I'm still curious if water ingress on a damaged joint or cable can cause wave like reflections in hlog.  I've got a photo somewhere of a badly oxidised connector in the BT66 caused weird and fluctuating atten, and 2 cables just crumbled when the engineer poked them with his screwdriver. It was very damp inside the box as it faces towards the sea and gets worst of the weather on that side. It started before fttc though and back in the days when we paid little attention to hlog (thats even if the modem would display them)!
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2021, 05:22:32 AM »

Not really.  That was before rate adaptive dsl (radsl) technology became available.   Back then the modems didn't specifically analyse the channels & bit rates to work out the maximum speed that the line was capable of syncing at. 

The speed was fixed rate at the DSLAM and therefore the modem could either sync.... or it couldn't.  If there was insufficient bit load to maintain 2Mbps then the line would just not be able to connect all at.   So there were basic rules in place, mostly based on the attenuation which dictated whether you could get 256/512/1000/2000 kbps.   Obviously there were a few lines which may have had slightly better SNR and sometimes BT could be persuaded to try you on the higher speed. In those days your SNR was very important in deciding the max speed. 

Maxdsl was the first rate adaptive product offered by BTw.  Maxdsl allowed the line to negotiate a sync speed based upon the current line conditions by analysing each frequency bin based upon the target SNRM of 6dB.  Not all modems were able work properly with maxdsl without a f/w update.  iirc thats when I ditched my Solwise SAR110?

adsl2+ natively uses rate adaptive technology, but it also has better coding algorithms for overheads than adsl1 & adsl2 allowing a max 24Mbps.  In theory, the rate adaptive process should have been not much different from any of the adsl2+ products offered by most of the LLU ISPs at the time.  Even though the superior coding algorithm allowed adsl2+ to be more flexible with the target SNRM, most stuck to 6dB or 9dB (Tiscali).  Many of the BTw Maxdsl DSLAMs were actually MSANs capable of adsl2, but we are talking the days when backhaul bandwidth was still a problem - mostly using ATM 155/622Mbps pipes.

The exceptions were (1) Be* who technically didn't have a true DLM, but allowed a target SNRM of 3dB to be set at the MSAN.... and (2) I think it was UKO who  would allow 3dB profiles and also dabbled with SRA. 
Ah, so original ADSL just didn't have any rate adaptation in the spec at all?  For some reason I never considered that.

I guess partly as I focused so much on SRA on ADSL2+ (mostly that nobody used it) that it hadn't occurred to me that plain RA was also a thing and how it was able to sync at discover the "max line rate" in the first place.

Moving to Be was awesome, I ran 3dB SNRm down, 6dB SNRm up for years - despite a chunk of my line being aluminium.  Was a real drag when I moved back to BTw where that wasn't possible any more.

People (especially in the US) bad mouth DSL but its honestly amazing just how much its evolved over the years.
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kitz

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Re: Crazy fault lost 2/3 sync speed.
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2021, 05:23:21 AM »

For the curious, I didnt get any compensation for the missed appointment even though it was mentioned in an email to AAISP.

IMO you are entitled.   They left you hanging around and delayed the repair by best part of a week.   I'd press again.. as I got compensation a few years back for a no-show and that was before they were less clear about it than they are now.
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