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Author Topic: Using Switch upstream from Router to solve VLAN issue for FTTC broadband  (Read 1051 times)

crd945

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Hi Everyone,

I'm trying to use a Google Nest Wifi as my router for EE FTTC G.fast fibre broadband instead of the EE provided router, but the Nest Wifi doesn't support VLAN (EE uses VLAN tagging and advises to set VLAN ID to 101 on routers). For background, I have a Openreach Modem (MT992), and use PPPOE on my router to connect to the internet.

Google Nest Wifi has a support page dedicated to using Nest Wifi with ISP's requiring VLAN support (https://support.google.com/wifi/answer/9798157?hl=en-CA) which states that I am supposed to add a managed switch with VLAN support between my BT Openreach Modem and Google Nest Wifi router.
 
I bought the Netgear GS308E Smart Managed Switch which supports VLAN, and was wondering if anyone could help me with some questions:
 
1: When I look in the Switch's admin page, there are 2 options for VLAN setups: (a) Port based and (b) 802.1Q. Any advice on which to use?
 
2: Do I just set the VLAN ID for 2 of the ports to the VLAN ID specified from my ISP (101 in EE's case), and use those 2 ports for my Router and Modem?
 
3: In advanced VLAN settings, I can enable "Advanced VLAN" settings - which include "PVID" options, and an ability to "tag" or "untag" certain ports. Do I need to do anything with these settings? And if so, something different for the port I plug my modem into vs. my router into on the switch?

4: Can I use an ethernet cable to connect my switch to the modem, or do I need a patch cable?
 
Thanks in advanced for your help!
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Alex Atkin UK

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AFAIK all Openreach based VDSL/G.FAST uses VLAN 101 for the connection to the ISP, this is handled in the modem not the router.

You should need nothing more than the PPPoE login details on the router.
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burakkucat

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Welcome to the kitz forum.  :)

As Alex has said, there is a VLAN, tagged 101, between your modem and your ISP's equipment.

Google Nest Wifi has a support page dedicated to using Nest Wifi with ISP's requiring VLAN support (https://support.google.com/wifi/answer/9798157?hl=en-CA) . . .

That page is poorly written and is misleading.  :-X

The Ethernet port on the modem and that on the "Nest WiFi" can be connected together with a standard cable. All modern devices auto-sense the connection, so just use a standard Cat5e or Cat6 cable.
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crd945

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Thanks for your replies! That's interesting, and I figured that might be the case.

One point to add - Google's support team asked me to run a diagnostic and send to them (long text file output). They reviewed it and said:

"The Nest Wifi network is having a hard time communicating to the Cloud Service which helps the network manage your connectivity. The Google Mesh system is dependent on the Cloud Service which is on the internet. When the Mesh system sends information for the setup of network to the Cloud Service, it is being filtered by the modem/isp system that you have. That's why the Steering sometimes works, sometimes doesn't work."

They suggested 2 reasons for this: (1) my ISP uses VLAN and Google Nest doesnt support it. (2) Suggested I change my DNS from 8.8.8.8 (for as the only option) to 8.8.8.8 on the Primary Server and 8.8.4.4 as the Secondary Server.

Is that all just misleading / poor support from google?

After they had time to think about it, they came back and said it was in fact the VLAN issue, and that I should get a managed switch with VLAN support to insert between my modem and Nest router.

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burakkucat

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They suggested 2 reasons for this: (1) my ISP uses VLAN and Google Nest doesnt support it. (2) Suggested I change my DNS from 8.8.8.8 (for as the only option) to 8.8.8.8 on the Primary Server and 8.8.4.4 as the Secondary Server.

Is that all just misleading / poor support from google?

It is utter rubbish and hog-wash.  >:(

Every ISP/CP in the UK supplying a service, carried via the Openreach FTTC (VDSL2, ITU-T G.993.2) product, makes use of a VLAN (tagged 101) between the modem and the upstream equipment. The VLAN end-point is the modem. Any equipment connected downstream of the modem has no knowledge of that VLAN.

I recommend that "Google" carefully reads SIN 498, Generic Ethernet Access Fibre to the Cabinet (GEA-FTTC), Service and Interface Description.

Return the equipment "as not fit for purpose" for a full refund.
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DaveC

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crd945,

As others have said - the VLAN issue is a complete red herring.  The Openreach modems (in their default configuratio) will remove the VLAN tagging, so as far as the router is concerned, there is no VLAN on your connection.

This doesn't happen everywhere in the world though.  e.g. in Spain, the FTTP services generally use different VLANs for data, VOIP and IPTV, so you would need routers that support VLANs (or a switch in the middle).

EE's advice to set VLAN 101 will be for combined modems/routers, where you need to specify VLAN 101 in the modem configuration section.

What exactly is your problem?  Does your Nest wifi work at all?



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mogsiewp

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What was the outcome on this?

Having exact same discussion with Google re nest WiFi and intermittent router dropouts wAn stays up. I got the vlan tag quote too again and again.

They won't or can't engage in any detail discussion

Vlan is disabled on Lan settings.

Did you return it?
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tubaman

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This is crazy as if the VLAN tagging was setup incorrectly the service wouldn't work at all, not just intermittently. You'd get line sync but no internet connectivity. The people as Google clearly don't have a clue about how this actually works. :no:
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stevebrass

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As others have said, Google Nest just needs its WAN setting set to PPPOE with ISP device user name and password. I don't know what EE use  - BT use a generic one.

This is done via the Google Home App ( there is an advanced settings tab somewhere) with the Google Nest disconnected from the modem.
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burakkucat

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The people at Google clearly don't have a clue about how this actually works. :no:

Perhaps we should recommend a search-engine to the people from Google, so that they can look-up some actual facts.  :-\  :)  :D  :angel:
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