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Author Topic: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)  (Read 12099 times)

Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2022, 06:08:00 PM »

I'd never thought to look up peering before (well not in the last decade or so), very interesting.

PeeringDB is really useful as it means you can figure out which peer a traceroute refers to.  In fact, for ping/traceroute tests I can pick a host over different peers to see how each is behaving, neat.

I guess AAISP VoIP should work pretty well with peering straight in Telehouse.  Mind you, I've been impressed with how fast I can get to Europe now, its not much slower than VDSL often was within the country.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2022, 06:16:00 PM by Alex Atkin UK »
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Ixel

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2022, 09:34:10 AM »

I'd never thought to look up peering before (well not in the last decade or so), very interesting.

PeeringDB is really useful as it means you can figure out which peer a traceroute refers to.  In fact, for ping/traceroute tests I can pick a host over different peers to see how each is behaving, neat.

I guess AAISP VoIP should work pretty well with peering straight in Telehouse.  Mind you, I've been impressed with how fast I can get to Europe now, its not much slower than VDSL often was within the country.

Yeah PeeringDB is useful, along with other places such as bgp.he.net, to check the ISP's connectivity. I started delving into PeeringDB and related resources when I setup my own ASN with RIPE :).

Going slightly off topic for a moment...

As I'm now using BGP from my home router, instead of OVH's /24 (well, I'm in the process of migrating) it has been extremely useful in helping to understand the best choices on which transits to work with (e.g. Mythic Beasts, CDN77/Datapacket, Vultr/Choopa, to name a few). That however will possibly need re-evaluating when I'm on LF next week. Overall cost for my ASN, IPv4 /24 and IPv6 /48 is actually less than I was paying OVH for just the dedicated server too which is nice. Motivators have primarily been that LF doesn't offer an IPv4 /29 and OVH's ASN is constantly being marked as spam by UCEProtect level 3. Someone also told me that LF's IPv6 implementation is currently broken, not sure if that's true though but yeah that's not really relevant for me since I have my own IPv6 /48 with BGP anyway. Another nice thing is I can traffic engineer to some degree, meaning I can avoid announcing my prefix(es) to a specific ASN, internet exchange or such in order to forcefully manipulate the route that the traffic takes.
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Ixel

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2022, 12:46:29 PM »

Hi all,
Installation complete. I've swapped it over to my MikroTik router and somehow I'm getting above the speed I should at the moment :D.



Installation lasted about 2 hours. A few vehicles and engineers turned up.

It's definitely DHCP, no PPPoE nonsense.
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burakkucat

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2022, 01:48:01 PM »

Another success story. Congratulations.  :)

Do you still, currently, have the old service active just in case an ELF rears its head?
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Ixel

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2022, 02:26:05 PM »

Another success story. Congratulations.  :)

Do you still, currently, have the old service active just in case an ELF rears its head?

Thanks :).

Yes, for now I have the old service on standby. I'll give it a week or two before I contact them to arrange cancellation. As it is I've already had a problem which I'm fairly certain is something to do with my MikroTik's configuration. I've had internet connectivity disappear and it was restored as soon as I forced the ethernet interface down and up, so that's an issue I'm currently trying to figure out the cause of. If it persists I will use their Zyxel router temporarily to confirm it's my equipment and not a problem that's out of my control.

Other than that hiccup, so far so good!

EDIT: The problem may have been caused by my somewhat strict firewall configuration. Anything on the input chain of WAN that's TCP or UDP and is a 'not yet established' connection is dropped. The DHCP client from what I understand uses UDP port 68, which I've now allowed. However, as an added precaution I've also made a scheduled script on my router which forcefully renews the DHCP client lease every 15 minutes. So far the connection hasn't dropped since then.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2022, 03:52:15 PM by Ixel »
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Ixel

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2022, 12:11:44 PM »

It worked well yesterday, the maximum speed was adjusted a few hours after the installation so I guess something was misconfigured or not fully configured on their end.

So... yesterday at least for traffic not going via LINX and instead going via LONAP I was seeing single thread download speeds of around 900+ megabits. On LINX however I was seeing an average of 250-350 megabits. Upload speeds were consistently 900 megabits+ for traffic going via either internet exchange on the various servers in London that I did test with (Vultr VPS, Mythic Beasts VPS, UK Dedicated Servers dedicated server, OVH (Erith) dedicated server and Misaka.io VPS which uses CDN77/Datacamp/Datapacket's network).

I initially saw a fast download single thread speed (via LONAP) somewhere around 7:45am this morning, but unfortunately since then I've not seen such speed since possibly 9-10am onwards. Typical results appear to be a brief burst at about 600+ megabits and then it settles around 200-350, no matter whether it's going via LINX or LONAP for the above mentioned servers to connect to my router here. Multiple thread speed appears to be fine.

I'm not 100% certain if it's my end currently or not but I have doubts that the problem is my end. I'll do a brief test at around 10pm tonight to see if speeds improve (e.g. with the possibility of less people using LF due to going to sleep). If I'm able to pretty much conclude it's not my end then I will get in touch with LF's support and see what they say, after I put their router back in place.

Here's a recent speed test from TBB at least:


Obviously this is more than adequate for video streams of high quality though for example, I realise that!

On other news, it looks like the timing to change network was convenient as I believe my Openreach ONT's power supply plug is developing a fault. I was plugging something in and heard some 'electrical noise' as if something was making and breaking perhaps. Observing that nothing else on the extension block was showing any possible problems, I looked at the ONT's power LED and noticed it was orange and discovered it was running off of the BBU. The power supply plug was firmly in the extension block too, but I was hearing some kind of electrical noise from the plug. I've unplugged it and the BBU's power to the ONT at the moment.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 12:26:18 PM by Ixel »
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burakkucat

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2022, 06:06:19 PM »

On other news, it looks like the timing to change network was convenient as I believe my Openreach ONT's power supply plug is developing a fault. I was plugging something in and heard some 'electrical noise' as if something was making and breaking perhaps. Observing that nothing else on the extension block was showing any possible problems, I looked at the ONT's power LED and noticed it was orange and discovered it was running off of the BBU. The power supply plug was firmly in the extension block too, but I was hearing some kind of electrical noise from the plug. I've unplugged it and the BBU's power to the ONT at the moment.

Was the BBU supplied as part of the installation? (I forget how many years ago it was when you decided to take a FTTPoD service.) From your mention of the colour of the ONT's power LED, I deduce that there is a telemetry cable installed between the ONT and BBU. So that implies either a Huawei 4+2 or a Huawei 1+1 ONT. So I guess the answer to my question is "yes".  ;)
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Ixel

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2022, 06:57:09 PM »

Yes the BBU was supplied as part of the installation. I believe this was around, or at least close to, the time when Openreach was phasing BBU's out. It's been quite some time since I've had FTTPoD installed. I have a Huawei 1+1 ONT and there is indeed a telemetry cable between the BBU and ONT.
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Ixel

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2022, 08:56:35 AM »

Here's an update.

With the help of another Lightning Fibre customer, a business customer, I've been able to confirm that the low single thread download speed issue isn't isolated to me. It's a somewhat strange behaviour in my opinion because it seems to start off near gigabit generally and then a few seconds later drop down to 200-400 megabits as if there's some kind of burst shaping going on, but that's probably not the case and just looks like it.

Me and another Lightning Fibre customer performed a local test, pretty much, using iperf3 between our Lightning Fibre IP addresses. The results showed near gigabit speed in either direction.

They also did a speed test on speedtest.net (single thread) using the Lightning Fibre server and they unfortunately had a similar result to me. They also did a speed test from their dedicated server in London using the Lightning Fibre server and were able to achieve multiple gigabits no trouble.

With their permission I've passed on this data to Lightning Fibre and am currently waiting for their next response.

Their initial response, while extremely quick, wasn't really inspiring. I was asked to use the speedtest.net app (Windows, Android or Mac) instead of the website as they said the website test can't generally keep up and showed me multi threaded test results comparing both the Windows app and the website on their laptop. I pointed out in my initial ticket message that it's single thread speeds as well as the result of that test. I also gave them the results I had on day one which were far better.

Unfortunately the speedtest.net Windows app doesn't appear to have an option for doing a single threaded test. Android however does so I plugged in their equipment temporarily and stood within a meter using my mobile to do a test, albeit wireless, and sent them the result of that test. Neither my system (an overclocked Threadripper 3990X 64-Core CPU) or the other Lightning Fibre's customer's system (an i9-12900K) are slow systems :D.

I also sent Lightning Fibre some additional iperf3 test results using two dedicated servers both on different networks and both with 10 gigabit ports. The tests were performed between my Lightning Fibre connection and the dedicated servers. Unfortunately they also showed similar slow single thread speeds. I've checked if this is depends on time of day and it's consistently on the slow side no matter if it's early morning, midday, early evening or late evening.

So, from this I at least know I'm not the only customer who could be experiencing a slower than imagined single thread download speed. I know it's not my equipment and I also know their network locally is performing fine so it's likely a problem somewhere between their network and the internet (issues or congestion with their transit(s), an underlying fault somewhere or possibly a misconfiguration). I'm hoping my findings will eventually be passed on to someone who has much greater access to their network infrastructure, e.g. someone in their NOC, to look into this and hopefully resolve it.

It's not a deal breaker but it's not what I was expecting. Perhaps at peak times I would've expected slower single thread download speeds but not all day long after day one.

This is likely a good test run of how their customer service is. Hopefully a positive outcome will come from this! :fingers:
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 09:02:46 AM by Ixel »
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burakkucat

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2022, 03:55:11 PM »

With the help of another Lightning Fibre customer, a business customer, I've been able to confirm that the low single thread download speed issue isn't isolated to me.

Obviously I would not expect you to post any details regarding that Lightning Fibre (business) customer but perhaps you could say if they are either (1) Eastbourne based, (2) Sussex based or just (3) England based. I.e. I am wondering how local you are to each other.

It is good that you are able to test using iperf3 between your respective IP addresses.
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Ixel

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2022, 05:00:13 PM »

Obviously I would not expect you to post any details regarding that Lightning Fibre (business) customer but perhaps you could say if they are either (1) Eastbourne based, (2) Sussex based or just (3) England based. I.e. I am wondering how local you are to each other.

It is good that you are able to test using iperf3 between your respective IP addresses.

Their office is in Eastbourne.

Indeed, I thought it might be useful for Lightning Fibre if they take this matter somewhat seriously. I've not had another update yet so I'm hopeful that it's probably due to waiting for feedback from someone else who has sufficient access to see what's happening on their network.

Unfortunately the problem may be getting worse. Earlier today I did a random iperf3 test with the OVH dedicated server and here's a comparison of the results from yesterday vs today.

Yesterday:
Code: [Select]
Accepted connection from x, port 60782
[  5] local x port 5201 connected to x port 60784
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  78.4 MBytes   657 Mbits/sec
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  72.6 MBytes   610 Mbits/sec
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  70.4 MBytes   590 Mbits/sec
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  39.9 MBytes   335 Mbits/sec
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  41.2 MBytes   345 Mbits/sec
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  43.0 MBytes   361 Mbits/sec
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  46.8 MBytes   392 Mbits/sec
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  27.0 MBytes   227 Mbits/sec
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  59.2 MBytes   497 Mbits/sec
.....

Today:
Code: [Select]
Accepted connection from x, port 32866
[  5] local x port 5201 connected to x port 32868
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  9.45 MBytes  79.2 Mbits/sec
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  16.2 MBytes   136 Mbits/sec
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  11.2 MBytes  94.6 Mbits/sec
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  13.7 MBytes   115 Mbits/sec
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  17.6 MBytes   148 Mbits/sec
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  12.3 MBytes   104 Mbits/sec
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  13.2 MBytes   110 Mbits/sec
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  11.7 MBytes  98.2 Mbits/sec
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  21.7 MBytes   182 Mbits/sec
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec  15.0 MBytes   126 Mbits/sec
[  5]  10.00-10.01  sec  42.8 KBytes   199 Mbits/sec
.....

Also a recent TBB test from just a moment ago:


I'm starting to wonder if I'm expecting too much from gigabit FTTP, but then I recall having much better single thread download speeds on Cerberus Networks FTTP - so I'm not sure. However, if the single thread download speed continues to degrade further... well, it won't be too far away from potentially affecting UHD streams :D.

Here's the iperf3 test between two Lightning Fibre connections from yesterday:
Code: [Select]
Accepted connection from x, port 59072
[  5] local x port 5201 connected to x port 59074
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  88.6 MBytes   743 Mbits/sec
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  97.3 MBytes   816 Mbits/sec
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  99.7 MBytes   837 Mbits/sec
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  99.5 MBytes   835 Mbits/sec
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  97.8 MBytes   817 Mbits/sec
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  91.9 MBytes   774 Mbits/sec
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec   108 MBytes   909 Mbits/sec
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  98.9 MBytes   830 Mbits/sec
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  98.1 MBytes   823 Mbits/sec
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec   102 MBytes   854 Mbits/sec
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  0.00 Bytes  0.00 bits/sec                  sender
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec   982 MBytes   824 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Accepted connection from x, port 59076
[  5] local x port 5201 connected to x port 59078
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  91.2 MBytes   765 Mbits/sec
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  90.1 MBytes   755 Mbits/sec
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  97.1 MBytes   815 Mbits/sec
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec   104 MBytes   872 Mbits/sec
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec   105 MBytes   879 Mbits/sec
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  93.4 MBytes   783 Mbits/sec
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  80.4 MBytes   674 Mbits/sec
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec   101 MBytes   850 Mbits/sec
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  96.2 MBytes   808 Mbits/sec
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec   102 MBytes   857 Mbits/sec
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec   961 MBytes   806 Mbits/sec                  sender
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  0.00 Bytes  0.00 bits/sec                  receiver

As you can see it's a much better speed and indicates nothing wrong 'locally' at least.

Perhaps the phrase "you get what you pay for" has more truth to it after all? :-\
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 05:14:16 PM by Ixel »
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burakkucat

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2022, 05:16:56 PM »

Hmm . . . I see. Puzzling.  :-\
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2022, 06:45:50 PM »

Sounds similar to what I had with Origin Broadband.  Something about their infrastructure meant I never got good single-threaded speeds the whole time I was with them, both on Digital Region and Openreach.  When I later re-activated that line with Plusnet it was a huge difference.
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Ixel

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2022, 11:33:29 AM »

Sounds similar to what I had with Origin Broadband.  Something about their infrastructure meant I never got good single-threaded speeds the whole time I was with them, both on Digital Region and Openreach.  When I later re-activated that line with Plusnet it was a huge difference.

Ouch, I hope I don't get a similar outcome with LF then! :fingers:

I've sent them another message earlier this morning with some more comparisons and speed tests. One being Cerberus Networks via Openreach FTTP and the other being Lightning Fibre. Ignoring the upload speed, as it's capped at a much lower value on Openreach FTTP, the difference between Cerberus Networks and Lightning Fibre's single connection/thread download speed is considerable.





-----





The only really nice thing about Lightning Fibre at the moment is the upload speed. Latency is also excellent but is virtually identical to Cerberus Networks. Multi connection/threaded download is almost identical.

When I have more news I'll share what I can. Hopefully some good news will follow soon.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Diary of My Experiences with Lightning Fibre (FTTP local ISP)
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2022, 01:22:56 PM »

Question is, does TBB do a single-threaded upload test or is that multi-threaded?

Single threaded is even more important as downloads can usually be multi-threaded quite easily, but uploads cannot.
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