Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum  (Read 4130 times)

grav412

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 8
G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« on: April 13, 2021, 11:05:31 AM »

My knowledge of telecoms is virtually nonexistent so some of this might be a load of rubbish - but I would be grateful for some help.

I was expecting to have G.fast installed. It is available at the exchange and there is capacity for us to have it. On foot, the exchange is under 200m from the house. I recognise that the cabling is not necessarily along that route though. The house is a former commercial premises with a BT Revelation board and various telephone sockets mounted on the wall directly in front of where the line seems to come into the house. This board might not be in use - but I am unsure of how to find out whether it is. The cabling then goes from the area where the line comes in/this Revelation board is and goes around the edge of the house quite some distance to the master socket. There is then an extension socket of the master socket in another place again - and this is where we have the router/the OR engineer tried to install the G.fast socket.

The OR engineer said that the socket is too far from the exchange to make G.fast work. The place he tried to install it in is seemingly the furthest socket from where the line enters.

Is it theoretically possible that if a new master socket was installed, at the closest point to the line entering the house, we might be able to get G.fast through it? BT have said there is no way, full stop, without any real explanation.

The other question I have is - the engineer said that he was unable to get any signal at all from the exchange when he installed the G.fast socket - because the socket is too far away from the exchange. I would understand if the speed was very low because we were too far away - but to get absolutely nothing? Does this sound right?

If we can't get G.fast, I am happy to accept that. I recognise the limits of the technology. But it feels like there are other options still to be tried/potentially something else going on due to some unconventional wiring. No one at BT really seems to understand the point I am making - it's just a flat out 'no'.

Any help at all much appreciated! I might have completely misunderstood what is going on...
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 11:09:58 AM by grav412 »
Logged

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2021, 01:35:05 PM »

The location of the exchange is pretty irrelevant.
G.Fast comes from the local green telephone cabinet that serves your property.

In some cases the green cabinet is right outside the exchange (sometimes within the exchange grounds).
It never comes from inside an exchange.

G.Fast has a very limited range and the short distance of internal wiring is unlikely to make much difference.

What estimates do you get for G.Fast if you enter your address on the Broadband Availability Checker.
https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL
Logged
Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

grav412

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2021, 02:03:19 PM »

Right - the green cabinet is directly in front of the exchange.

Estimates are:

G.fast Range A (Clean)    171.8   138.6   23.4   9   118.3   Green   Green   --
G.fast Range B (Impacted)    133.3   86.4   14.9   6.8   79.4   Green   Green   --


Presumably there could still be some benefit from obtaining G.fast at these speeds?

The engineer said the socket was 364m of cabling from the cabinet. Where all of the cabling that supplies this socket goes is unclear - but if there was in excess of 50m of perhaps 'unnecessary' cabling, I would not be surprised considering how much is around the edge of the house and the fact that it seems to go through the roof.

I suppose I am trying to establish whether making the cabling route to the master socket much more direct would be of benefit. Obviously, the issue might be outside the bounds of my property and it might be that cabling taking an indirect route to get to my house. There doesn't seem to be an easy method of finding out where the cables actually go. I am not discounting the issue being internal considering the state of some of the other phone/electrical installation work carried out by the previous owners.
Logged

meritez

  • Content Team
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1623
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2021, 02:38:42 PM »

Welcome @grav412

If the line is syncing under a certain threshold, Openreach will not install G.Fast.

So, as G.Fast has two products, 160/30 and 330/50 the minimum threshold for 160/30 is 100 from what I recall, the G.fast Range B (Impacted) shows the issue.
Logged

Alex Atkin UK

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 5260
    • Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2021, 02:43:32 PM »

if there was in excess of 50m of perhaps 'unnecessary' cabling, I would not be surprised considering how much is around the edge of the house and the fact that it seems to go through the roof.

That would have to be some excess, my house is only 7m long, but if indeed there was 50m excess then yeah that would definitely impact the speed.

Generally it would be the route from the cabinet that adds excess and there's nothing you can do about that, sadly.
Logged
Broadband: Zen Full Fibre 900 + Three 5G Routers: pfSense (Intel N100) + Huawei CPE Pro 2 H122-373 WiFi: Zyxel NWA210AX
Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, Netgear MS510TXPP, Netgear GS110EMX My Broadband History & Ping Monitors

grav412

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2021, 02:49:02 PM »

@meritez - Thank you. I do wish someone at BT/the engineer had just said that to me. Funny that they sold it in the first place though, considering they obviously had this information too...

Presumably there is little that can be done at my end to enhance the line coming into the property?

@Alex Atkin UK - that makes sense, thanks. It seems impossible to establish how much of the issue comes from the route from the cabinet and how much is internal. I wish there was an accessible cable map available! I'm considering getting someone to put a new master socket in as close as possible to where the cabling enters the property. Presumably that might have the effect of increasing the speed. Probably not enough though?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 02:56:23 PM by grav412 »
Logged

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2021, 02:54:07 PM »

Welcome to the Kitz forum.  :)

The house is a former commercial premises with a BT Revelation board and various telephone sockets mounted on the wall directly in front of where the line seems to come into the house. This board might not be in use - but I am unsure of how to find out whether it is. The cabling then goes from the area where the line comes in/this Revelation board is and goes around the edge of the house quite some distance to the master socket. There is then an extension socket of the master socket in another place again - and this is where we have the router/the OR engineer tried to install the G.fast socket.

A few clear pictures, uploaded to a photo-sharing site, please, would help with the understanding of the above. I would be very surprised if it is all still active.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

Alex Atkin UK

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 5260
    • Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2021, 04:52:30 PM »

I'm considering getting someone to put a new master socket in as close as possible to where the cabling enters the property. Presumably that might have the effect of increasing the speed. Probably not enough though?

It can't hurt but legally only your telco can do that and if its worth the cost is hard to guess.
Logged
Broadband: Zen Full Fibre 900 + Three 5G Routers: pfSense (Intel N100) + Huawei CPE Pro 2 H122-373 WiFi: Zyxel NWA210AX
Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, Netgear MS510TXPP, Netgear GS110EMX My Broadband History & Ping Monitors

Black Sheep

  • Helpful
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5717
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2021, 07:20:51 PM »

I would follow B*Cats advice and post pictures of where the cable enters the premises and how it navigates through/around the old Relevation system.

As mooted, it's probably not in use anymore but if your line is still connected via circuitry inside it, it may be stopping the G.Fast signal finishing its journey. As an aside, have you ever had DSL service of any kind at the premises ??
Logged

grav412

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2021, 08:40:26 PM »

Thank you for all of the advice so far.

On closer inspection, the Revelation is definitely not in use - there is no power going into it.

I am however now unsure of where the line actually enters the property. I thought it entered through this cable at the bottom:

https://ibb.co/KKKhbwf

Directly in front of this cable are these boxes, underneath the Revelation:

https://ibb.co/8dvmGzx

Perhaps they are not in use. Equally, this external cable might be nothing to do with the line - maybe TV aerial or something electrical. It definitely comes from underground though.

The line then seems to just appear at the top of an external wall, run over the roof and go into this box:

https://ibb.co/c8QZYPW

Then it goes round the edge of the house and into the first master socket.

So I do not actually know for certain where the line enters the property, frustratingly. There are no other entry points for cables anywhere else on the outside of the house, with the exception of that shown in the first image. Any ideas?

@Black Sheep - no, I have not had a DSL service while living there. The previous occupants might have though. Is there any way of telling?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 08:43:41 PM by grav412 »
Logged

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2021, 09:58:17 PM »

On closer inspection, the Revelation is definitely not in use - there is no power going into it.

Very interesting.

The line then seems to just appear at the top of an external wall, run over the roof and go into this box:

https://ibb.co/c8QZYPW

Then it goes round the edge of the house and into the first master socket.

I can identify that as a BT66.

I am however now unsure of where the line actually enters the property. I thought it entered through this cable at the bottom:

https://ibb.co/KKKhbwf

Those cables are definitely multi-pair. One appears from the pea-shingle and enters the building at the third strip of cladding from the ground. Then there is a second cable which exits the building through the fifth strip of cladding (from the ground) and is possibly the one that goes to the BT66.

Directly in front of this cable are these boxes, underneath the Revelation:

https://ibb.co/8dvmGzx

Perhaps they are not in use.

Distribution Point number 210 (DP210).

You really need to have all that redundant gubbins removed . . . but I'll let Black Sheep comment, as that gubbins is all part of his domain.

Edited to add: Will you let us know the serving telephony exchange for your home, please?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 10:13:34 PM by burakkucat »
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

Alex Atkin UK

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 5260
    • Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors
Logged
Broadband: Zen Full Fibre 900 + Three 5G Routers: pfSense (Intel N100) + Huawei CPE Pro 2 H122-373 WiFi: Zyxel NWA210AX
Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, Netgear MS510TXPP, Netgear GS110EMX My Broadband History & Ping Monitors

grav412

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2021, 10:39:16 PM »

@burakkucat - thank you very much.

That cabling from the 5th cladding strip definitely goes to the BT66.

We are served by telephone exchange EASRM.

@Alex Atkin UK - the BT Revelation is directly above it.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 10:44:53 PM by grav412 »
Logged

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2021, 10:41:11 PM »

What's directly above this?

An obsolete BT Revelation main control unit.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: G.fast/telephone extension socket conundrum
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2021, 10:42:59 PM »

We are served by telephone exchange code EASRM, Stretham.

Ah, a fellow East Anglian. ("The Cattery" is served by EABSE.)
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.
Pages: [1] 2
 

anything