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[Chrysalis]

I see this is hitting mainstream news now more often, I wonder the experts who work or have worked for any of our telecom companies have an insight as to why spoofing isnt blocked or filtered at the phone network level?

[Alex Atkin UK]

I never understood that either.  You'd think at least the telcos would go "uh that's not coming from where its supposed to be" and strip it.

It seems the caller ID system was a very naive system for everyone to trust a caller is who they claim to be, no questions asked.

[kitz]

They do indeed seem to be on the increase (as do scam calls), but I was surprised to find out some years ago that unlike some other countries, in the UK it isn't illegal to spoof a phone number.   It only becomes a crime when some other fraud type crime has been committed.

IMHO this leaves a grey area wide open for those damn "I'm calling about your recent accident" / "Tech Support" / "Amazon" / "Your Bank" to start with... and helps serve to re-enforce a crime they are about to commit.   It's akin to giving a bank robber several sticks of dynamite to blow open the safe door, but they've not done anything wrong until they take the money off the premises and made a get away.   

I'm not sure how hard it is for the service provider or carrier to track the numbers when VoIP is involved?  Plus the increase in non-geographic numbers, re-use of some geographic numbers,  large organisations such as the NHS using a default number & caller id blocked due to either ex-d or use of 141.   Surely it must be possible at some level because emergency services can still see you landline number even if your caller-id is hidden. But it is crucial the system must still allow a procedure in place for genuine reasons of privacy or surprise.   

Vodafone has/had a warning system for known to them possible scammer numbers.  I say 'has/had' because I've not seen any of these warnings for what must be a few years now, but I guess they are reliant on other users reporting the numbers as opposed to at a network level.

As well as the scam type calls...  it's now even easier than ever to spoof a phone number and absolutely anyone can can buy  SpoofCards to make calls and texts appear to be coming from wherever they want.   The apps to do this even has the ability to bypass the ringing and straight to voicemail as well as having inbuilt voice disguise.


Interesting topic as something needs to be done about the ever increasing misuse of spoofed numbers which do lead to fraud.   How to do so without compromising the legitimate aspect I have no idea.

[tubaman]

I've noticed recently on my phone that a lot of these numbers show as 'International' but with the spoofed UK number too. I'm sure they didn't used to have the 'International' part so that is an improvement.

[4candles]

Calls originating outside the UK will have 'International' in the CLI data, even if the spoofed number is a UK one.
Conversely, calls originating in the UK will not have that flag, even if the spoofed number is not a UK one.

[Chrysalis]

Interesting to find out its legal, I agree seems odd.  As long as its legal I guess the telco's hands are tied.

[tubaman]

Calls originating outside the UK will have 'International' in the CLI data, even if the spoofed number is a UK one.
Conversely, calls originating in the UK will not have that flag, even if the spoofed number is not a UK one.

Are you sure, as in the past I've definitely had calls where I've been connected to what sounded like a foreign call centre but there was no 'International' on the caller display?

[Alex Atkin UK]

Are you sure, as in the past I've definitely had calls where I've been connected to what sounded like a foreign call centre but there was no 'International' on the caller display?

I've only ever seen International OR a number, never both.  But this may just be that my handsets can't handle both pieces of information.

I have noticed since switching to the Gigaset it seems to just show the full number rather than saying International.

[tubaman]

I've only ever seen International OR a number, never both.  But this may just be that my handsets can't handle both pieces of information.

I have noticed since switching to the Gigaset it seems to just show the full number rather than saying International.

Interesting, my Panasonic handsets show both and definitely didn't used to.

[roseway]

I'm seeing changes in the CLI response too, on my Panasonic handsets. After a recent landline problem (now fixed) Incoming calls now display "Incoming call" for a few seconds before displaying the number, where previously the number was displayed immediately. It looks as though a configuration change was made in the course of fixing the problem.

[4candles]

Calls originating outside the UK will have 'International' in the CLI data, even if the spoofed number is a UK one.
Conversely, calls originating in the UK will not have that flag, even if the spoofed number is not a UK one.

Are you sure, as in the past I've definitely had calls where I've been connected to what sounded like a foreign call centre but there was no 'International' on the caller display?

Aye, sure.

It accords with what my BT contacts tell me, and with my own experience in the last couple of years.
I was reading somewhere recently that some individual scammers have a 'call centre sound effects' CD playing in the room.   

[Floydoid]

It really is becoming a darned nuisance - one thing I've noticed that many junk calls now are coming from numbers spoofed to look like they are coming from a mobile, i.e. begin with 07.  I almost never answer my landline nowadays unless my handset recognises my number. I just let the answering system take the call - they usually just hang up. A genuine caller will start speaking (at which point I take the call).

One other very sneaky scam I've come across recently, the caller pretending they are from your bank and spoofing their number to look like the 0345 number on the back of your debit card. As I understand it those numbers are for inbound calls only, and the banks DO NOT use them for calling you.

If you search for an iffy looking number on Who Called Me, or similar site you can almost guarantee there will be several reports about it. [Whether it serves any useful purpose other that warning other site users, as I have done on occasion, I don't know.]

[Alex Atkin UK]

Were long since past the point where we need some sort of CLI authentication so that it CAN'T be spoofed.

[benji09]

  I have still get scam calls on my BT/Sky phone line, so I give out my Sipgate V.O.I.P. line now to everyone for incoming calls. I have never received a scam call on my Sipgate line, for some reason. But my proper line continues to receive them. Fortunately I don't get so many scams calls recently, but this might be due to my abusive manner in which I deal with them when they have called?

[broadstairs]

Yes it is a PITA and I'm surprised that the Telcos have not found a way to defeat it. I normally only answer calls where I know the number both on my mobile and landline. Trouble is when I get a call from the NHS it is often Private Number calling so I have to answer those although I've yet to have a scam caller spoofing that.

Stuart