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Author Topic: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue  (Read 1844 times)

Hitman

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Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« on: March 25, 2021, 09:53:38 PM »

Hi Guys,

Had a pretty great line since BT fixed it 18months ago, but over 6 months last year it dropped and looking at the Bitload graph, definately a change in the graph, is this a result of crosstalk or do i have an internal/closer issue or external copper/joint issue going on?

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burakkucat

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2021, 11:25:44 PM »

Looking at those bit loading plots doesn't really tell me anything. Do you have the Hlog and QLN plots available? They are the ones that would show if any significant metallic pathway defect or cross-talk is present.
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Hitman

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2021, 10:30:57 AM »

Looking at those bit loading plots doesn't really tell me anything. Do you have the Hlog and QLN plots available? They are the ones that would show if any significant metallic pathway defect or cross-talk is present.

The auto snapshot has those unticked, bummer :/

I may have some manual snapshot backups elsewhere i took, which will have those and post up later, cheers....
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tiffy

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2021, 04:46:55 PM »

To be honest, don't think there's a drastic variation in the bit loading graphs, April to December 2020 you have posted but I could be wrong!
Obviously the "X" axis (width) variations are due to the different tone ranges plotted, 0-6300 April & 0-5250 December.
The "U0" tone band loading looks identical, very little difference in the "U1" band loading and slightly more variation in the "U2" band loading.
Very slight loss of bit loading apparent on the "D2" and "D3" tone bands.

Quote
The auto snapshot has those unticked, bummer :/
If you are currently running DSLStats you can snapshot HLog & QLN graphs at any time, doesn't really matter if the graphs are "ticked" to auto-save or not.
I'am sure you are aware that HLog & QLN are representative of the last modem/DLM synch and won't change until the next re-synch.
Any archived HLog/QLN graphs you may have will only represent the line state at the previous modem/DLM synch before they were snapped.
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Hitman

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2021, 07:16:27 PM »

Thanks tiffy and all,

Ok i think the drop i would now put down to subsciber additions as the graphs look near, had 74 meg initial sync which has dropped to 72 then 70, i've just changed isp and that has placed me from a 3.3snr up to a 6.3snr.

Don't think the ISP can do anything with this or OR?, line has been running now for just over 48hrs and no change, i think i might have to try the manual line capping to try and nudge dlm to apply back to a 3.3 profile?

Any suggestions here? wait, contact isp (ZEN) for help or try a cap, Edit:whoops i presume i may have interleaving applied due to the change over, how can i tell as the stats look pretty much the same apart from the lower 60meg and 6.3snr sync rate i'm now on and if so, how long does interleaving usually last for?

Thanks,
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 07:28:48 PM by Hitman »
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tiffy

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2021, 07:33:00 PM »

Completely to expectation, a change in ISP will have caused a DLM reset and started your line off with default 6dB DS SNRM, this should change back to 3dB DS SNRM in 1dB steps with a minimum of 48 hrs between changes provided your line is stable, don't re-synch, let DLM do it's business.
DLM intervention usually occurs during the early hours.

I changed from Plusnet to Zen last December and this is exactly what happened at 48 hour intervals.
Once 3dB DS SNRM was achieved had to carry out some modem DS speed capping in order to acieve DS G.Inp re-tx low profile once again, the saga is listed in this post which may be of interest.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25387.msg427464.html#msg427464
 
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Hitman

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2021, 07:47:05 PM »

Completely to expectation, a change in ISP will have caused a DLM reset and started your line off with default 6dB DS SNRM, this should change back to 3dB DS SNRM in 1dB steps with a minimum of 48 hrs between changes provided your line is stable, don't re-synch, let DLM do it's business.
DLM intervention usually occurs during the early hours.

I changed from Plusnet to Zen last December and this is exactly what happened at 48 hour intervals.
Once 3dB DS SNRM was achieved had to carry out some modem DS speed capping in order to acieve DS G.Inp re-tx low profile once again, the saga is listed in this post which may be of interest.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25387.msg427464.html#msg427464

Yeah, pretty much did the same back then, when the capping hack was found and got myself that low re-tx profile, that has stuck with this changeover and still shows as low, although i did do a reboot/refresh on the day of swapover but today i did power off for 35 minutes having spotted my nte5 clip on front face plate had been knocked/dislodged and had come away slightly off the master socket behind (although the connection was still running) these are crap design TBH, I decided to ditch the front crappy clip on and plugged in a filter i got with the new fritzbox instead, those graphs impoved slighlty as well but stats now show 2 resyncs.

I'll leave it now until hopefully i eventually get back down to the 3db profile (Using a Zyxel B10a modem to a Pfsense machine).

Cheers!
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tiffy

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2021, 11:21:51 AM »

Yes, agree with the reservations expressed regarding the current OR NTE5C Faceplate, apart from the very poor clip attachment used have never liked the idea of the internal components not being soldered to the PCB!
I have stuck with the much more robust Mk3 vDSL/ADSL Interstitial Faceplate with NTE5A Master Socket as I still use a land line phone.

Have never utilised the Zen supplied Fritzbox 7530 modem/router to date, my ZyXEL separate modem/router combination has always worked very well on my rather long line which only supports 40/10 max VDSL-2 service.
I also adopt the principle of a minimum of 30 minutes between modem re-synch's to cover at least 2 consecutive DLM sample periods.

As my area has recently been upgraded for FTTP (UG cabeling) I hope to migrate service with Zen if the price is right, after 6 weeks, still awaiting an e-mail response for quotation.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2021, 07:15:13 PM »

As my area has recently been upgraded for FTTP (UG cabeling) I hope to migrate service with Zen if the price is right, after 6 weeks, still awaiting an e-mail response for quotation.

Surely you don't need a quotation, can't it just be ordered normally if its actually live in your area?
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g3uiss

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2021, 07:21:16 PM »

I rang and got a very helpful and detailed quote on the various bandwidth levels. The conundrum is if to stick with a copper phone or go SIP. Think it’s a no brainier really.

As ever Zen very helpful to me.
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tiffy

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2021, 08:30:49 PM »

Quote
Surely you don't need a quotation, can't it just be ordered normally if its actually live in your area?
Of course that's the case but I would like to know how much it's going to cost, phone options and implications on moving from a current VDSL FTTC contract, surely that's not unreasonable?

Quote
I rang and got a very helpful and detailed quote on the various bandwidth levels. The conundrum is if to stick with a copper phone or go SIP. Think it’s a no brainier really.
Yes, I could ring and enquire, just disappointed at the lack of response to my e-mail and probably being a wee bit "thick" which is stopping me phoning.

Could you possibly elaborate on the phone options offered, not familiar with this aspect, hence the original inquiry to Zen?

Edit: Apologies to "Hitman" for drifting somewhat off topic.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2021, 08:33:08 PM by tiffy »
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g3uiss

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2021, 10:08:15 PM »

All Zen FTTP services come with copper line included. Published call charges

Or
1) Transfer to Zen VOIP, reduced cost of FTTP, but unable to port existing number at present)
2) Transfer to 3rd party, further reduction on FTTP cost, to reflect no copper or VOIP, port number (subject supplier - Sipgate can)

I think during covid-19 they are much better placed to handle calls than email, not sure why, but other users report similar. My call was answered in less than 3 minutes.

To port number it must be active (obviously) so careful plann8ing needed I think !
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tiffy

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2021, 10:56:47 AM »

@g3uiss:
Many thanks for the additional information, much appreciated.

I am happy with Zen to date, such a contrast from my previous ISP, Plusnet, certainly would like to remain with Zen and I probably will get around to making phone contact soon accepting that the lack of e-mail response may well be due to Covid staffing issues.

I appreciate that a lot of forum patrons would dearly love to have FTTP option available but to be honest my meager 40/10 FTTC service is sufficient for my current requirements and the hassle involved in getting the fibre from footway chamber to house with no current UG ducting installed is putting me off at present.

Again, apologies to "Hitman" for straying off topic and somewhat hijacking his post.
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Hitman

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2021, 12:05:23 PM »

DSLAM adjustment this morning -SNR 5.3  :) although along with it comes the Re-tx high Inprein 1.00 ::), so will manually cap once at 3.3 to get that little DS Re-tx low back.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Drop in speed - is this Crosstalk or internal issue
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2021, 02:40:20 PM »

All Zen FTTP services come with copper line included. Published call charges

Or
1) Transfer to Zen VOIP, reduced cost of FTTP, but unable to port existing number at present)
2) Transfer to 3rd party, further reduction on FTTP cost, to reflect no copper or VOIP, port number (subject supplier - Sipgate can)

You've confused me as surely that's a contradiction as not ALL packages include copper line if those "or" options exist?  Did you mean "as standard"?
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