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Author Topic: Lift & Shift  (Read 6908 times)

risk_reversal

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Lift & Shift
« on: July 30, 2008, 03:13:52 PM »

I have had a long standing problem with slow speed during the afternoon. A BT engineer came around recently (the 2nd one in 6 months) and said that he would advise a lift & shift.

I understand that this will mean that I will be moved to another card on the DSLAM / MSAM and that this process is conducted at the exchange.

My ISP said that BT wanted to arrange another appointment for a BT engineer to attend at my property while the lift & shift is done. According to my ISP there will 2 engineers doing this lift & shift, one at the exchange and one at my house.

First question: Is this the proceedure? 2 engineers???

When the engineer who came around recently left (having found nothing wrong again) he said to me clearly do not let BT onto the premises again until the lift & shift had been done. He was emphatic about that (repeated it twice).

When BT do a lift & shift, is there any possibility that this may affect my BT phone line (PSTN) or my BB connection. I work from home a lot of the time and cannot afford to have any kind of problem with my phone or BB. Especially knowing that with BT it could take weeks to fix anything that they break. BT may have time and resources to burn but such an event could be critical for me.

Getting quite anxious about this and was wondering if someone can provide me with some clarity to ease my state of mind please.

Many thanks for any info provided.

Cheers
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Ezzer

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Re: Lift & Shift
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 05:10:21 PM »

First I've heard of a 2man lift & shift ?

A lift and shift would occur if the port your dsl outputs from either dosn't sync be it with 0,20,40 or 60db load with the wiring going out of the exchange disconnected. the line loss,snrm or errors do not coinside with a connection from the idf only, or something like an error code 721 keeps poping up.

Typicaly the bou who we would eventualy get through to on the phone may try a card reset or rebuild some of the setting in the case of a 721 error.

If it comes to a lift and shift then once I get the new mapping then I would rejumper the line at the exchange myself as I am frames trained, although I work in a rural area so we tend to do more aspects of the job

Some parts of the country the frames part of the work is done by a frames engineer, the external work by another engineer which may be the situation in your area. The lift & shift should be ok without a visit to your premisis but it sounds as though your engineer is being thorough and want to double check from your premisis after the lift and shift is done.

The process of a lift and shift can take anywhere from 30mins to just under 2 hours (computers huh!)even though the rejumpering part at the exchange only takes a few mins. Sometimes for a number of reasons we can't get a new port on the day the lift and shift is prpaired so a job can be raised for a frames engineer to do this on another day at the exchange, no other engineer would be involved at this point 
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risk_reversal

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Re: Lift & Shift
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 05:48:21 PM »

Quote
A lift and shift would occur if the port your dsl outputs from either dosn't sync be it with 0,20,40 or 60db load with the wiring going out of the exchange disconnected. the line loss,snrm or errors do not coinside with a connection from the idf only, or something like an error code 721 keeps poping up.

Nothing like that seems to be happening with me that I know of.

When the engineer came around recently he found nothing wrong. His modem immediately synched at 7808/832. I explained to him that weekdays from lunchtime to about 5.30pm my speeds dropped to as low as 300kbps (ie 0.3meg). A side effect was that during the affected times my pings would go up from 20-30 to about 100 and upload speeds could sometimes drop as well. Outside of those hours there was no speed issue at all ie 6-6.5 megs and everything else was normal.

I suggested that perhaps I might be on a line card with other business users who were 'crowding' me out and he agreed that this conclusion was hard to escape. It was at that point that he suggested a shift & lift.

I did have the problem last year and upgrade to a business package in dec-07 on the basis that it provided higher priority at the exchange. This upgrade seemed to resolve the problem up until late mar-08 when the speeds began spiralling lower and eventually got to the stage where speedtests results showed download at 300kbps & upload at 580kbps.

My exchange is on green and I am only about 700mts from the exchange albeit as the crow flies.

Cheers
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kitz

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Re: Lift & Shift
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2008, 12:43:15 AM »

Sync (connection) speed from your router is more important than actual throughput speed when trying to diagnose if  you have a line fault.
Line faults will show as poor linestats.


Good lines tats, but poor throughput is symptomatic of problems in another area such as exchange (or ISP) congestion..  which perhaps sounds like the problem that you had in March.
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risk_reversal

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Re: Lift & Shift
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2008, 12:04:55 PM »

Many thanks for your reply kitz.

Quote
Good lines tats, but poor throughput is symptomatic of problems in another area such as exchange (or ISP) congestion..  which perhaps sounds like the problem that you had in March.

Well my line stats from my 585 v6 are as follows.

 Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 768 / 8.128
 
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11,5 / 19,5
 
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 16,0 / 26,0
 
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,0 / 6,5
 
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
 
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
 
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
 
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
 
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
 
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
 
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
 
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 2.421
 
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1.582


I guess my best option is to let BT change my line card and hope that they don't create more problems than they fix.  :'(

Many thanks
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kitz

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Re: Lift & Shift
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2008, 12:29:52 PM »

Obviously I dont know how long your line has been up for, but those stats seem very good indeed.
If your line has been up for several days, then theres few (HEC/CRC) errors, which can sometimes slow a line down, and that count is negligible.

When you get poor speeds again - check out that your sync speed is still 8128 and that your SNR Margin hasnt dropped.   If they havent, then the fault is going to be more likely congestion somewhere and not a line fault.

Lift and shift may help as it could move you onto a less congested VP.
Check your exchange status too - http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/
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risk_reversal

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Re: Lift & Shift
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 01:18:36 PM »

Cheers kitz,

Sorry omitted up time. Connection is slowing, already down to 800kbps with current stats below, which from what you say points to exchange.   

Let me ask you a final question, in theory (and hopefully in practise). Generelly, a lift & shift should create no problems (or spin off problems).

Many thanks for your invaluable info

Cheers

--------------------------------------------------------
 
Uptime: 7 days, 0:10:10
 
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
 
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 768 / 8.128
 
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11,5 / 19,5
 
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 16,0 / 26,0
 
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,0 / 6,5
 
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
 
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
 
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
 
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
 
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
 
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
 
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
 
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 2.436
 
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1.587
 
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Ezzer

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Re: Lift & Shift
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2008, 01:30:12 PM »

The stats look really good, the errors over 7 days is insignificant unless they've come in a burst.

Lift and shift should'nt cause any problems, I've only had the odd occasion where the new port given turned out to be faulty but it's very rare.

Although given your stats I would think the slower speeds would be an issue with your isp rather than anything to do with the line back to the mux at the exchange but at least a lift and shift would prove this point so you can have your isp look at things from thier end
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kitz

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Re: Lift & Shift
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2008, 02:33:16 PM »

Yep line stats look fine.

Ive been through several lift and shifts over the years - never had a problem. 
Line is down for about 10 mins or so whilst the engineer completes the required jumpering but that's about it.

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risk_reversal

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Re: Lift & Shift
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2008, 05:37:54 PM »

Most kind guys.

Cheers
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