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Author Topic: FTTP rate changing  (Read 2238 times)

Weaver

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FTTP rate changing
« on: March 13, 2021, 12:29:49 AM »

If an FTTP customer wants to change to a new deal with faster speeds, say going from 300Mbps downstream to 900Mbps, how is this achieved in detail in the network ?
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RealAleMadrid

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2021, 08:52:43 AM »

There is no change required in the physical fibre network. The trunk GPON fibre is fixed speed typically around 2.4Gbps down and 1.2Gbps up shared by 32 end users. I assume the actual throughput speeds that an individual user can achieve is controlled at the head end OLT using a profiling system that controls the Time Division Multiplexing (TDM). A user on a higher speed service gets a bigger share of the time slots. The link below gives some basic information about GPON.

https://www.giga.net.uk/what-is-gpon/
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tiffy

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2021, 11:29:34 AM »

Many thanks for the link, as a resident in a very recently UG feed FTTP upgraded area who will certainly be migrating in the not too distant future from fairly slow FTTC service due to a relatively long line, very informative.
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j0hn

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2021, 02:08:45 PM »

It's not even as complicated as suggested above.

Everyone on GPON gets the full 2.4Gb/s down and 1.2Gb/s up to their ONT.

Only the upstream has shared time slots and that has nothing to do with package speeds.
A user on a higher service does not get a bigger share of time slots.
It's only when a user is physically uploading that time slots are assigned.

It's simply a profile applied to a line, artificially limiting throughput. No more, no less.

If you want to change speeds you tell the ISP, they order that change from OpenReach, who then push a button changing your profile.
It can be a same/next day change.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2021, 02:11:33 PM by j0hn »
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Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

Weaver

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2021, 05:51:00 PM »

Where does the downstream rate-limiter live?
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2021, 07:30:34 PM »

Also, how do they handle the minimum speed guarantee?  Surely that means some sort of traffic management must happen on the PON so that each customer always has a minimum level of performance?
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tickmike

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2021, 09:14:37 PM »

If an FTTP customer

Are you getting / hope to get FTTP soon ?.
I see a lot of questions about FTTP :)
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I have a set of 6 fixed IP's From  Eclipse Business isp.BT ADSL2(G992.3)line>HG612 as a Modem, Bridge, WAN Not Bound to LAN1 or 2 + Also have FTTP (G.984) Trunk Networks Business isp Fixed IP >Dual WAN pfSense (Hardware Firewall and routing).> Two WAN's, Ethernet LAN, DMZ LAN  .

j0hn

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2021, 12:39:53 AM »

Also, how do they handle the minimum speed guarantee?  Surely that means some sort of traffic management must happen on the PON so that each customer always has a minimum level of performance?

SIN 506 GEA FTTP

Quote
2.1.6 Downstream policing

Each individual GEA-FTTP connection is policed by Openreach on ingress to the GEA Cablelink to the product rate. The details of the policing rates and associated burst sizes are detailed in table 1 below

Quote
The policing behaviour is described below: • If the CP sends a range of 802.1p marked traffic (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) for the GEA data service downstream to the GEA Cablelink, the following will be observed for bursts: • 802.1p = 0 marked traffic will have access to half of PBS & CBS • 802.1p = 1 to 7 marked traffic will have access to the full PBS & CBS • If more than PIR is sent, then random drop across 802.1p = 0 and demoted 802.1p = 1 to 7 (i.e. the CP sent traffic marked as discard ineligible above the CIR rate) will be seen • The policers act on the full packet, apart from the IFG & pre-amble i.e. VLAN tags, SA/DA, FCS

2.1.7  Downstream  shaping

The  CP  is  expected  to  shape  the  downstream  traffic  to  match  the  product  downstream rate  (see  section  1.2)  in order to  avoid excessive  traffic  loss.   
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Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2021, 12:55:55 AM »

Note to self, page 9 seems of interest.  Although I'm still a little puzzled as surely this is irrelevant when all data is encapsulated in PPPoE?

Totally makes sense for FVA for is an ISP offers a similar service, but don't see how it helps plain broadband.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 01:04:13 AM by Alex Atkin UK »
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j0hn

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2021, 01:24:49 AM »

You've lost me.

The 1st paragraph on page 9 is about FVA (labelled 2.1.5.2 FVA  Downstream Priority  Marking on page 8) but I quoted the next section which is unrelated to FVA.

It explains that OpenReach rare limit/cap FTTP at the product rate, on the OLT, before entering the CP's GEA cablelink.
OpenReach expect the ISP to do the same for their customers Downstream traffic.

All data isn't encapsulated in PPPoE. While most ISP's do this, not all do.
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Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

Weaver

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2021, 01:28:22 AM »

@Tickmike I doubt if I shall ever live long enough to see FTTP  ;)  I just realised how totally ignorant I am about it and how there’s a story to be told. So self-education. Hope that’s alright?
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2021, 02:25:35 AM »

What I meant was, priorities are meaningless on most ISPs as they will ONLY be sending a stream of PPPoE throttled at the boost rate.

So do Openreach simply drop random packets at that point if there is contention as the entire stream will likely have the same or no priority tag at all?  I suppose the answer is obviously yes, just as they would on any other broadband product.

But more puzzling is that table says 550/75 has a priority of 110/50 but 1000/110 also has a priority of 110/50.  How does that make sense?
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Weaver

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2021, 10:41:29 AM »

By ‘priority’ do you mean as in ethernet 802.1p?
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2021, 09:53:01 PM »

By ‘priority’ do you mean as in ethernet 802.1p?

As far as I can tell, that's how its defined on the network.  But like I said, surely if you are using PPP to tunnel over the network then all traffic will be tagged the same, or not at all (as there really wouldn't be any point).
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tickmike

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Re: FTTP rate changing
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2021, 09:49:58 AM »

@Tickmike I doubt if I shall ever live long enough to see FTTP  ;)  I just realised how totally ignorant I am about it and how there’s a story to be told. So self-education. Hope that’s alright?

You will see it and use it, adds to the excitement to know about it before it comes to your island.
Not sure if there is anything in the 'News' item section I posted in a rush (waiting for our new car to come :)  ) this morning.
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I have a set of 6 fixed IP's From  Eclipse Business isp.BT ADSL2(G992.3)line>HG612 as a Modem, Bridge, WAN Not Bound to LAN1 or 2 + Also have FTTP (G.984) Trunk Networks Business isp Fixed IP >Dual WAN pfSense (Hardware Firewall and routing).> Two WAN's, Ethernet LAN, DMZ LAN  .
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