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Author Topic: A switch in ISP provider  (Read 4023 times)

tubaman

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Re: A switch in ISP provider
« Reply #105 on: April 05, 2021, 01:41:42 PM »

I'd leave it alone and wait for 3dB before trying anything else. There is a chance it'll put INPRein back to zero at that point given your very low errors but I think from what others have seen that is unlikely.
 :)
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tiffy

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Re: A switch in ISP provider
« Reply #106 on: April 05, 2021, 03:36:31 PM »

@BobC:
Have a look at this rather long post of a few years ago, contains a lot of very good information relating to your current situation.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22086.msg379336.html#msg379336

As previously stated in this post, from personal experience on my line and as reported by many forum patrons, I don't believe that DS ES rate is the main criteria DLM considers with respect to DS G.Inp re-tx profile selection.
Have never seen any definitive explanation as to exactly what modem factors DLM monitors for re-tx profile selection but have found that significantly decreasing DS FEC error rate by modem DS speed capping the only way to achieve the desired result of low DS re-tx profile selection by DLM.
Of course, modem speed capping also reduces other factors such as G.Inp LEFTRS which is also believed to possibly be a DLM re-tx profile contributory factor.

My line would certainly sit for weeks/months with zero DS ES/SES rate and DS G.Inp re-tx profile high with DLM making no attempt to revert to low profile.
Did find that after a long period on re-tx high profile that quite a severe DS speed cap was required and DLM action could take a considerable time to revert to re-tx low profile.
Once DS re-tx low profile was attained found that DLM was more tolerant to higher DS FEC rates without re-application of re-tx high profile.

Regarding the modem speed clamping process:
I have always manually dropped the PPP session, powered down the modem and unplugged the data cable.
Re-powered the modem and entered the desired clamp rates from my Win 10 PC via Telnet.
Plugged in the data cable ensuring at least 30 mins. had elapsed from initial modem power down.
As I'am sure you know, the modem speed clamp won't survive a modem re-boot, will have to be re-entered.
I believe, entering the modem speed clamp command on a synch'ed line will cause an immediate re-synch, have never tried.

As advised, would still wait until DS 3dB SNRM is achieved, assuming your line can support this, before starting any speed capping operations.
 
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Zen 40/10 - DSLStats/RPi3B - ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Modem/VMG-3925-B10B Router Huawei Cab

BobC

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Re: A switch in ISP provider
« Reply #107 on: April 07, 2021, 10:02:19 PM »

Approaching 2 days at 3dB now. FEC's are running rampant at 3dB. I just have one question regarding the noise margins is there a reason why my noise margin syncs are always .5 to .7 instead of 5, 4, 3dB? Right now it's 3.5dB, later on it will be 3.7 / 3.8, is that unusual?

Throughput is now 62-63Mbps. Current sync rate 71Mbps. IMPRein=1 is still enabled. Not tried that clamping method yet. Was hoping dlm would just change it back to low, but it seems the clamp is the only option, wish there was a simpler way than disconnecting everything tbh then rebooting with the command. I thought I would be able to just force the command. Telnet has been finnicky with me since getting this router setup. That dslstats approach seemed like a simpler method, but I don't want to be doing anything only to be making mistakes.

I just wanted to make a final note on ISP providers. I will probably stay with BT if I can get a good deal. Openreach's FTTP is not even in the planning here yet, I thought we would be one of the first areas to get it to take some of Virgin Media's Gigabit rollout custom but clearly not. If I can't get a good deal from BT then I will move to one of the other ISP's who use the speed profile. Plenty of options have been mentioned in this thread.

A massive thank you to all for your input.

My Broadband Ping

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 15212 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73475 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 15212 Kbps, Downstream rate = 71196 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.6             6.0
Attn(dB):        19.5            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.9            7.6

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              243             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               64
R:              10              16
S:              0.0000          0.4977
L:              18620           4083
D:              8               1
I:              254             127
N:              254             254
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                80              0
TxQueue:                16              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         16              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              6.4000          0.0000
L:              40              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               696185
OHFErr:         0               69
RS:             1418882544              3959291
RSCorr:         572711          486
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            9743065         0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             97430039                0
RSCorr:         15              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         19651638                0
rtx_c:          31029           0
rtx_uc:         238026          0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         103             0
minEFTR:        71193           0
errFreeBits:    1498801281              0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    4246756904              0
Data Cells:     420477738               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             78              784
SES:            66              0
UAS:            4547            4482
AS:             156538

                        Bearer 0
INP:            55.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            7.99
OR:             0.01            32.02
AgR:            71269.32        15243.66

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            0.00
INPRein:        4.50            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             79.68           0.01
AgR:            79.68   0.01

Bitswap:        59212/59212             3767/3767

Since Link time = 1 days 19 hours 28 min 57 sec
FEC:            572711          486
CRC:            0               69
ES:             0               68
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
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tubaman

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Re: A switch in ISP provider
« Reply #108 on: April 08, 2021, 08:24:36 AM »

You need to just ignore the FEC count - they are corrected errors that effectively didn't happen. Broadcom chips always sync at slightly above the exact SNR number, it's just the way they are. The small variation over time is normal too. If you really feel you need the few extra dB that INPRein=0 will give you then I suspect you'll need to try the clamping method as advised. Note of course that you've probably actually been running with INPRein=1 for years and just didn't know as you couldn't see the stats on an ISP supplied router.
 :)
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tiffy

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Re: A switch in ISP provider
« Reply #109 on: April 08, 2021, 09:26:11 AM »

Quote
Approaching 2 days at 3dB now. FEC's are running rampant at 3dB. I just have one question regarding the noise margins is there a reason why my noise margin syncs are always .5 to .7 instead of 5, 4, 3dB? Right now it's 3.5dB, later on it will be 3.7 / 3.8, is that unusual?

In a word, yes, would be quite unique to observe an active xDSL line "flat lining" on US/DS SNRM at any target level.

For reference, attach DSLStats SNRM 4 day graph on my 40/10 VDSL-2 service, probably as good as it gets on a very low noise line in a low population density area.
By comparison, my daughters line also on 40/10 VDSL-2 service, SNRM 4 day graph, noisy line in a high population density area.

Glad your line has now achieved 3dB DS SNRM target via normal DLM action.
If you are happy with your current DS synch and data speeds then do nothing further.
If you wish to try to achieve DS G.Inp re-tx low profile then modem speed limiting will very likely be required pending any further DLM intervention which I believe to be unlikely considering your reported very high DS FEC error rate.
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Zen 40/10 - DSLStats/RPi3B - ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Modem/VMG-3925-B10B Router Huawei Cab

BobC

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Re: A switch in ISP provider
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2021, 11:00:42 AM »

You need to just ignore the FEC count - they are corrected errors that effectively didn't happen. Broadcom chips always sync at slightly above the exact SNR number, it's just the way they are. The small variation over time is normal too. If you really feel you need the few extra dB that INPRein=0 will give you then I suspect you'll need to try the clamping method as advised. Note of course that you've probably actually been running with INPRein=1 for years and just didn't know as you couldn't see the stats on an ISP supplied router.
 :)

Whenever I did a speedtest in the past the throughput was always 3Mbps lower than sync. I just took a look back at the screenshots I posted on this thread and I see the symbols were at 55 with INPRein=1 when I first setup the ZyXEL router, that may have happened because I had restarted the router 3 times in the space of a few hours, I noticed that throughput vs sync difference immediately. The Zyxel also synced at 44Mbps rather than the 42 on the HUB, so there may have just been a small delay to the correction. When the dsl uptime reset after 8 days the throughput was back down to 3Mbps lower than sync. That was the day before or the same day as the engineer arrived, fixed the wiring and did a dlm reset. At 6dB with G.INP activated IMPRein was set to 0. It was only when dlm tested 5,4,3 it switched to =1. This was the first time I had ever heard about two profiles (3% throughput loss vs 8%) so I may have not been able to see the stats properly in the past but I would have known about this higher throughput drop difference if my speedtest results were 8-9Mbps lower than sync in the past.

Thanks for those graphs Tiffy. I will start monitoring mine. When I had a look at the graph the other day mine looked more in the form of a small wave with some straight lines inbetween. I never leave the comp on overnight so I lose the stats unfortunately.

60+ Mbps is more than I could have ever hoped for. I was expecting my line to be suffering from lots of crosstalk, line instability caused from aluminium instead of copper etc. i didn't truly believe my line was capable of 60-70Mbps anymore. If things remain stable I may try that clamping approach at some point in the near future and see how things go.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 11:15:59 AM by BobC »
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tubaman

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Re: A switch in ISP provider
« Reply #111 on: April 08, 2021, 11:58:21 AM »

... so I may have not been able to see the stats properly in the past but I would have known about this higher throughput drop difference if my speedtest results were 8-9Mbps lower than sync in the past.
...

Fair comment. I think your line has, as many have, suffered from reduced speeds due to crosstalk as more people on your cabinet subscribed to FTTC services. You may be able to get a bit more out of it if you can encourage INPRein back to zero (ReTx Low) but other than than that what you are seeing now is as good as it will get. I'm glad you are pleased with the results and given the very low errors you are seeing I can't see why it shouldn't stay that way.
 :)
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tiffy

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Re: A switch in ISP provider
« Reply #112 on: April 08, 2021, 12:09:08 PM »

Quote
I will start monitoring mine. When I had a look at the graph the other day mine looked more in the form of a small wave with some straight lines inbetween. I never leave the comp on overnight so I lose the stats unfortunately.

I run DSLStats on a RPi 3B which runs 24/7, works very well.
My daughters 40/10 VDSL-2 service modem/router is monitored on a RPi Zero W powered from routers USB port, Wi-Fi connected and remotely accessable using VNC free, had the same setup on my sons line also, he has recently gone FTTP so no further need.

24/7 stat's monitoring is possible using a RPi Zero W for a very modest outlay but be warned, it can become addictive!
I first started when the fantastic MDWS facility was available and I worked away from home on a regular basis. 
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Zen 40/10 - DSLStats/RPi3B - ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Modem/VMG-3925-B10B Router Huawei Cab
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