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[Chrysalis]

If your SNR is moving about (unstable) you have unstable levels of noise on the line and a DLM reset isnt going to fix that.

[g3uiss]

Problem with cancelling with BT directly is I would lose my slot on the cab and I'm pretty sure it's still full.

I don’t think so for a migration

[BobC]

I really think as @weaver suggested a box of eBay ( £20/30) would give you all the answers. Certainly less than switching. At least you would know.

Wouldn't say it's less than switching when I'm already paying £40 a month for a sub standard service. If I had renegotiated the price, dropped to the lower package or had simply gone elsewhere I could have saved myself some money. As said already though price wouldn't be an issue if I had respectable speeds. Started off in the mid 70's I was fine with, in the 60's I questioned it but left it, in the 50's I had a few engineers out who seemingly did absolutely nothing besides change the faceplate and run a few tests then said that's all you're going to get I'm afraid. Even though my noise margin was then at a 8.5, my max data was still in the 60's whereas the data rate was floating around the high 40's low 50's. There was definitely an issue somewhere besides crosstalk. Another thing I have never understood is why my line and signal attenuation have rose from 18.1db in 2016-2018 to a now 19.6/7.   

If your SNR is moving about (unstable) you have unstable levels of noise on the line and a DLM reset isnt going to fix that.

Yeah, I already knew that unfortunately. A dlm reset alone won't fix the line condition, which is why I kept raising faults, eventually gave up because every single engineer pretty much did the same thing then left. There is something else going on besides crosstalk but none of them bother to do a thing about it. The thing is in 5 years of being with BT I have never really had any downtime besides the HUB restarts and little to no congestion at peak times. I don't have all the fancy stats to back that up and I may well be wrong but I have not noticed any major issues unlike when I was Virgin Media and had lots of issues everyday.

I will just switch to a different provider on short term deals and hope FTTP comes along asap. If the next provider have a decent kit I will then be able to supply that information.

I don’t think so for a migration

Yeah, I meant if I phoned BT directly to cancel. I would first need to sign up with another service and migrate that way I think.

[tubaman]

Don't really want to be spending any extra on top of the monthly broadband bill by buying my own equipment.
...

Unfortunately if you only want to use the ISP's supplied router then you are likely to be stuck with not knowing very much about your line conditions as a lot don't give much of this information. A work colleague of mine has recently moved to John Lewis broadband and they still issue Zyxel routers, which most here, myself included, consider decent.
I'm happy to chance a cheap secondhand router from eBay but I know not everyone is comfortable doing that.
 

[g3uiss]

Wouldn't say it's less than switching when I'm already paying £40 a month for a sub standard service.

As @tubman has also pointed out, the only way to find out what is going on is to get some stats. You need to know why the SNRM varies etc. Then many very experienced members here could give you some detailed advice.

Yes its always best to migrate. You chose a new provider, they handle the cancellation with existing provider. Cancelling is a recipe for disaster 

[BobC]

As @tubman has also pointed out, the only way to find out what is going on is to get some stats. You need to know why the SNRM varies etc. Then many very experienced members here could give you some detailed advice.

Yes its always best to migrate. You chose a new provider, they handle the cancellation with existing provider. Cancelling is a recipe for disaster 

Any specific routers in mind? I won't be able to make any sense of most of the information. Hopefully the install isn't complicated either. Seen some online in the past that had thousands of customisation options. I would still prefer just to switch to a provider that supply a decent router/modem configuration with better CS, but I'll do what everyone as suggested here. Once I get one should it be plugged into the master socket or test socket? and if there are problems should I be reporting it to BT or switch provider and let them handle it? I could get an engineer out if I contacted BT right now but they would probably say the same thing as the last 3.

[Weaver]

Talk to Andrews and Arnold; they’ll probably tell you that nothing can be done about crosstalk. But if there’s anything else wrong then they will fix it - they have an ‘or your money back’ scheme, or used to have. But apart from faults it will be the same old line, with AA or anyone else.

[g3uiss]

Any specific routers in mind? I won't be able to make any sense of most of the information. Hopefully the install isn't complicated either. Seen some online in the past that had thousands of customisation options. I would still prefer just to switch to a provider that supply a decent router/modem configuration with better CS, but I'll do what everyone as suggested here. Once I get one should it be plugged into the master socket or test socket? and if there are problems should I be reporting it to BT or switch provider and let them handle it? I could get an engineer out if I contacted BT right now but they would probably say the same thing as the last 3.

Many users here use Zygel routers VMGxxxx-B10A is the preferred one. But many others B10x. You will get much help on the setup here, you only need your login details from ISP nothing else to setup, unless you have a customised network. Help also and how to get the stats. When you have the stats, members will be able to suggest where, and if a fault might be. Changing provider will do nothing as @weaver says its the same line. All faults should be reported to the ISP and they raise with OR. If its not a problem to use the test socket, then its a better option, but not essential except for fault finding. I'm afraid ISP supplied routers are generally low end devices.

If you do want to swap ISP, I would suggest you check out @weavers suggestion, but like me he doesn't know if they still guarantee to clear a fault. However as everyone has said crosstalk cant be fixed, and just gets worse with time, unfortunately never goes the other way

[BobC]

Many users here use Zygel routers VMGxxxx-B10A is the preferred one. But many others B10x.

I see what the other commenters meant about Ebay and second hand now. I can only find a few sites that list them and they are all £100+. Even second hand are £40+. This router would be a test and throw away item. Also noticed the 4 ports are limited to 100 rather than gigabits. Not that it matters over vdsl and I don't expect FTTP to be implemented for years, just surprised that so many users use this.

[tubaman]

I see what the other commenters meant about Ebay and second hand now. I can only find a few sites that list them and they are all £100+. Even second hand are £40+. This router would be a test and throw away item. Also noticed the 4 ports are limited to 100 rather than gigabits. Not that it matters over vdsl and I don't expect FTTP to be implemented for years, just surprised that so many users use this.

I'm not sure why you say it would be a 'test and throw away item' as that certainly doesn't need to be the case. I've been using a Zyxel router on my BT line for years because they are reliable and I have control over how they work. The 10/100 rather than gigabit ports is only true on the VMG 1312 series, all of the VMG8xxx and VMG3xxx routers have gigabit ports as far as I know. There's also quite few available right now on eBay for under £40 - here a new example for £29.99 delivered - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZYXEL-Wireless-AC-N-VDSL2-Gateway-Router-VMG3925-B10C-Gaming-Video-HD/114639543196
 

[j0hn]

I see what the other commenters meant about Ebay and second hand now. I can only find a few sites that list them and they are all £100+. Even second hand are £40+. This router would be a test and throw away item. Also noticed the 4 ports are limited to 100 rather than gigabits. Not that it matters over vdsl and I don't expect FTTP to be implemented for years, just surprised that so many users use this.

So many users only use it as a dumb modem, with a separate, more powerful router.
As FTTC is limited to 80/20 the 100Mb LAN ports can't be a bottleneck in that setup.
I advise against many of the older Zyxel devices as a single combined unit.

Actually, there aren't many combined modem routers that I'm a fan of.
I've been using a separate modem and router since back in 2012 when FTTC 1st launched.
It makes perfect sense to me to use 2 separate devices.
Over the last couple years I've gone from FTTC, to Virgin, to FTTP all with the same router.

The Huawei HG612 might be a good cheap option on eBay.
They provide lots of statistics that can help identify issues on a line.

I'm with others above in that I think a switch of ISP may not help with your speeds.
The drop in sync that you've experienced over the last few years are well within the range of what's commonly lost due to crosstalk.

What is difficult to tell from the limited stats is why the attainable rate is higher than the sync and why the SNRM (noise margin) is so high.
The line doesn't appear to be banded by the DLM.
If it isn't then a DLM reset (either manually applied or as a consequence of switching ISP) will do nothing for the line.

If it's external noise like REIN causing the low sync/high SNRM then it's almost impossible to track it down.
It could be pretty much any piece of machinery, plant, a pump, a neighbours old tv, etc, etc, anywhere in-between you and your cabinet that causes external noise.

It really doesn't matter which ISP you choose if that's the issue
None of them can easily get OpenReach to open a REIN investigation.
Even if they did and they track down whatever it is, they have no power to make anyone fix anything.
If your issues are caused by a waste water pump for example OpenReach can only tell whoever owns that pump that it's causing issues with local broadband lines and ask them to fix it.

Weaver (who posted above) has 4 bonded ADSL lines from AAISP. He pays them an absolute fortune every month
Yet on 1 of his lines the SNRM swings up and down everyday.
AA regularly send engineers when his lines go bad but every time they fix a small error, mark the job as complete and the case is closed.
A few of us believe this to be caused by a noise source external to his property.
Never once has this external noise even been looked at when AA have sent an engineer to fix his line.
The engineer runs a few tests, fixes any bad joints and marks the job as done.
They aren't going to walk the 7km length of his line to find the noise source, he just has to live with it.

It would massively help to try identify yourself what might be the issue.
A cheap HG612 off eBay will probably be cheaper than the extra a single month on AAISP would cost you.

What will help for the moment... could you resync your line and post the new line stats when it has reconnected.
That will be informative even with your limited stats available.

[BobC]

Taken a look at the Zyxel VMG8324-B10A. Was horrified when I saw the configuration screen on Youtube, then I saw that firmware flashing is required. This as well as convenience is precisely why I stick with the pre-configured ones provided by the ISP's. I had to split the SSID's with the Hub 5 and turn some other setting off and that was about it. Login and done. That router to me looks incredibly complex especially that firmware. Clicked on a few links and they led nowhere. Is it simpler than it looks? I thought it would be something I could plug in, log into and just report the stats after a few days.

As for the Huawei HG612 I take it this is modem only and needs a router attached separately? I'll stick with the all in one option from the above.

06th January 18:49:11, Down Rate=48941Kbps, Up Rate=14689Kbps; SNR Margin Down=8.3dB, Up=6.0dB

14th January 02:34:29, Down Rate=48941Kbps, Up Rate=15125Kbps; SNR Margin Down=8.4dB, Up=6.0dB

28th January 03:41:55, Down Rate=46901Kbps, Up Rate=15057Kbps; SNR Margin Down=8.3dB, Up=6.0dB

14th February 12:27:30, Down Rate=42051Kbps, Up Rate=15152Kbps; SNR Margin Down=10.2dB, Up=6.0dB

17th February 01:30:43. Down Rate=43947Kbps, Up Rate=15327Kbps; SNR Margin Down=10.0dB, Up=5.9dB

06th March 02:34:49. Down Rate=42051Kbps, Up Rate=14731Kbps; SNR Margin Down=9.7dB, Up=6.0dB

09th March 21:40:31, Down Rate=42051Kbps, Up Rate=14772Kbps; SNR Margin Down=9.9dB, Up=6.0dB (Test socket) manual reset

10th March 01:48:29. Down Rate=42051Kbps, Up Rate=14828Kbps; SNR Margin Down=9.8dB, Up =6.0dB

I can't grab any of the older ones but I do have a few screenshots of the HUB stats from 2016-2018, telephone checker stats etc but that information seems irrelevant now with the max data rate changing and estimates changing on my line. That line and signal attenuation still gets me though. 18 to 19.6db. The upload one actually dropped from 27 to 23 when I look at some of those old screenshots to now.

This is a bit of recent information for you John. I don't really want to be resetting the HUB's connection at this time as it will probably drop me down even further due to those recent automatic HUB resets

[Weaver]

To add to what John said, the weird up/down jumping SNRM is upstream only, for some reason, and I have no idea why it does that, and what’s the weirdest of all is that it only affects that one line. If it were RF interference then I would expect all lines to be affected but who knows.

About the ports in the ZyXEL modem-routers, four ports is pretty limiting so many people will want a proper gigabit n-port separate switch, so in that case the 100Mbps limitation won’t matter as it will only be for traffic going to/from the internet, not traffic on the LAN. Wired-to-wireless traffic will really suffer though if you have 100Mbps ports. I’m using VMG1312-B10s as modems only not as routers, so they only see 3Mbps [!] of internet traffic each.

[g3uiss]

I think the video you watched has given you the wrong idea, it will plug and play. The 2 box solution is the better, but I didn’t suggest it for the complications you fear. Many users update the firmware and links are on this site to do that, I’ve never bothered and haven’t suffered.

However to gain any information, and the chance to improve the line if a fault is obvious,stats are needed. Like J0hn has said, the down SNRM is indicative the line isn’t running at its potential as it would be 6db or (lower on a Hy cabinet). The sync isn’t at a “obvious capped” level.

There isn’t really any other way to diagnose your line, however the gradual erosion of the sync is indicative of cross talk, but that doesn’t explain the 8.x SNRM

[j0hn]

The line is definitely banded. The sync rates just aren't the usual rounded numbers easily identifiable.
3 exact syncs in a row with a high SNRM says it all.
Ignore my previous REIN comments.

You can trust those reported attainable rates. The line would sync around there without the banding in place.
Add another 8-11Mb if the line is stable and the DLM was to reduce the line to a 3dB profile.

Have you tried pushing BT for a DLM reset on the forums?

Could the line be resyncing frequently, multiple times in a day? Does the current modem show that in any logs?
That's usually why banding is applied and why it continues to be lowered.

A DLM could be a temporary fix if there's an underlying issue.