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Author Topic: issue with openreach advice please  (Read 4422 times)

madhatter

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Re: issue with openreach advice please
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2021, 04:38:34 PM »

I'm using a Netgear DM200 with OpenWRT and it's certainly a bit of a muddle with the firmware.

OpenWRT appears to ship 5.8.1.8.1.6 but it also has a patch file which results in the actual firmware being set as 5.7.9.9.0.6

As previously stated, the Lantiq firmware files do not seem to following the normal incrementing sequence to denote later versions.
The 5.8.1.5.0.7 firmware file has a date of 23/3/2016 whereas
       5.7.B.5.0.7 firmware file has a date of 13/9/2017

For reference, I'm using 5.7.B.5.0.7 extracted from the Netgear DM200 GPL source file and it's very stable with an Huawei cabinet with G.INP enabled.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: issue with openreach advice please
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2021, 06:41:42 PM »

Touch wood this is looking quite stable considering its a much higher downsync than the Zyxel especially with tweaked SNRm.  Not counting my chickens as the old firmware was stable too at first then lost sync multiple times in a single day for no obvious reason.
Code: [Select]
Chipset: Lantiq™ XWAY™ VRX268
Firmware Version: 5.9.0.12.1.7
API Version: 4.17.18.6
MEI Version: 1.5.17.6
Power Management Mode: L0 - Synchronized
Line State: UP [0x801: showtime_tc_sync]
Line Uptime: 13h 2m 27s
Resyncs: 2
DSLAM/MSAN VID:
XTSE Capabilities: 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2
Annex: B
Line Mode: G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Profile: 17a
Trellis: D: ON / U: ON
Bitswap: D: ON / U: ON
G.INP: D: Enabled / U: Not Enabled
Virtual Noise Support: D: Not Supported / U: Not Supported
Attain Data Rate: 66.781 Mb/s / 18.085 Mb/s
Actual Data Rate: 66.702 Mb/s / 18.584 Mb/s
Impulse Noise Prot: 44.3 sym / 0.0 sym
Interleave Delay: 0.21 ms / 0.0 ms
NFEC: 32 / 255
RFEC: 16 / 16
LSYMB: 16 / 4983
Interleave Depth: 1 / 1
Interleave Block: 32 / 255
LPATH: 0 / 0
Line Attenuation: 11.8dB / 14.5dB
Signal Attenuation: 11.9dB / 14.3dB
Noise Margin: 3.9dB / 5.8dB
Transmit power: 13.8dBm / 5.2dBm
FECS: 0 / 132484
ES: 0 / 13731
SES: 0 / 1
LOSS: 0 / 0
UAS: 171 / 171
HEC: 0 / 0
CRC_P: 0 / 0
CRCP_P: 0 / 0
15m Code Violations: 0 / 1
15m FEC Errors: 0 / 1
1d Code Violations: 0 / 15930
1d FEC Errors: 0 / 132484

The really weird one is my Zen lines HH5A (attainable figure is due to tweaked SNRm but the line is banded so it does nothing):
Code: [Select]
Chipset: Lantiq™ XWAY™ VRX268
Firmware Version: 5.7.9.9.0.6
API Version: 4.17.18.6
MEI Version: 1.5.17.6
Power Management Mode: L0 - Synchronized
Line State: UP [0x801: showtime_tc_sync]
Line Uptime: 8d 3h 59m 5s
Resyncs: 3
DSLAM/MSAN VID:
XTSE Capabilities: 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2
Annex: B
Line Mode: G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Profile: 17a
Trellis: D: ON / U: ON
Bitswap: D: ON / U: ON
G.INP: D: Not Enabled / U: Not Enabled
Virtual Noise Support: D: Not Supported / U: Not Supported
Attain Data Rate: 78.232 Mb/s / 23.704 Mb/s
Actual Data Rate: 67.000 Mb/s / 20.000 Mb/s
Impulse Noise Prot: 0.0 sym / 0.0 sym
Interleave Delay: 0.0 ms / 0.0 ms
NFEC: 255 / 255
RFEC: 16 / 16
LSYMB: 17979 / 5410
Interleave Depth: 1 / 1
Interleave Block: 255 / 255
LPATH: 0 / 0
Line Attenuation: 12.4dB / 15.4dB
Signal Attenuation: 12.4dB / 15.2dB
Noise Margin: 5.7dB / 8.4dB
Transmit power: 13.9dBm / 6.4dBm
FECS: 9981 / 4514
ES: 40 / 18320
SES: 0 / 1
LOSS: 2 / 0
UAS: 116 / 116
HEC: 0 / 0
CRC_P: 0 / 0
CRCP_P: 0 / 0
15m Code Violations: 0 / 0
15m FEC Errors: 0 / 2
1d Code Violations: 96 / 78
1d FEC Errors: 9304 / 343

That firmware version makes no sense, its using stock OpenWRT which is xcpe_581816_580B11.bin which was reported correctly on the Plusnet Hub before I replaced the firmware and was on Zen too AFAIK until the latest OpenWRT update.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 07:28:24 PM by Alex Atkin UK »
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madhatter

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Re: issue with openreach advice please
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2021, 08:06:17 PM »

Certainly on my DM200, with no firmware file override in place, the details showed the same as yours - 5.7.9.9.0.6.
The files in lib/firmware are as follows :

lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            43 Jan 19 13:10 lantiq-vrx200-a-to-b.bspatch -> xcpe_581816_580B11_to_579906_574402.bspatch
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            22 Jan 19 13:10 lantiq-vrx200-a.bin -> xcpe_581816_580B11.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          1920 Jan 19 13:10 xcpe_581816_580B11.LICENSE
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        898952 Jan 19 13:10 xcpe_581816_580B11.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        253635 Jan 19 13:10 xcpe_581816_580B11_to_579906_574402.bspatch
root@OpenWrt:/lib/firmware#

 
Perhaps OpenWRT only applies the 5.7.9.9.0.6 patch to certain devices ?
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: issue with openreach advice please
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2021, 09:17:06 PM »

I think I might know what happened.  It was accidentally set to Annex A for a while which obviously doesn't use the patch so reported the unpatched version number.  Weird thing is it worked, until one of the recent OpenWRT updates where it refused to sync and I correctly switched it to Annex B.

What bothers me is not knowing what this A to B patch exactly does.  My Plusnet modem is clearly using unpatched vr9-A and its working for Annex B fine so far.  Is the patch perhaps only for ADSL support?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 09:24:38 PM by Alex Atkin UK »
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meritez

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Re: issue with openreach advice please
« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2021, 09:47:08 PM »


What bothers me is not knowing what this A to B patch exactly does.  My Plusnet modem is clearly using unpatched vr9-A and its working for Annex B fine so far.  Is the patch perhaps only for ADSL support?

Code: [Select]
Think of bspatch as a "binary diff" between the annex A firmware blob an the annex B firmware blob for the DSL modem inside the router.
By using bspatch, only either the annex A or the annex B firmware blob needs to be included in full, and the "full" firmware blob for the other annex can simply be obtained at runtime/during boot by applying the bspatch to the "full" firmware blob for the "first" annex. It's just a simple and efficient way to save a lot of space in the router's firmware image whilst still allowing the device vendor to support both DSL annexes with one common firmware.
From here: https://github.com/xdarklight/lantiq-xdsl-firmware-info/issues/14
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: issue with openreach advice please
« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2021, 05:04:14 AM »

Code: [Select]
Think of bspatch as a "binary diff" between the annex A firmware blob an the annex B firmware blob for the DSL modem inside the router.
By using bspatch, only either the annex A or the annex B firmware blob needs to be included in full, and the "full" firmware blob for the other annex can simply be obtained at runtime/during boot by applying the bspatch to the "full" firmware blob for the "first" annex. It's just a simple and efficient way to save a lot of space in the router's firmware image whilst still allowing the device vendor to support both DSL annexes with one common firmware.
From here: https://github.com/xdarklight/lantiq-xdsl-firmware-info/issues/14

Yeah that's what I thought, so basically the Annex thing does only affect ADSL it seems although the B firmware would have taken up less storage.

However that makes it even more confusing why my Zen HH5A is using the B patched firmware if A is fine for VDSL.

FTTP can't come soon enough, I'm getting too old for this. (realising probably half the regulars if not more are older than me)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 05:27:15 AM by Alex Atkin UK »
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: issue with openreach advice please
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2021, 06:44:00 AM »

*****

Code: [Select]
Chipset:      Lantiq™ XWAY™ VRX268
Firmware Version:   5.8.1.8.1.6
API Version:      4.17.18.6
MEI Version:      1.5.17.6
Power Management Mode:   L0 - Synchronized
Line State:      UP [0x801: showtime_tc_sync]
Line Uptime:      4m 3s
Resyncs:      2
DSLAM/MSAN VID:     
XTSE Capabilities:   0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2
Annex:         B
Line Mode:      G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Profile:      17a
Trellis:      D: ON / U: ON
Bitswap:      D: ON / U: ON
G.INP:         D: Enabled / U: Not Enabled
Virtual Noise Support:   D: Not Supported / U: Not Supported
Attain Data Rate:   26.578 Mb/s / 9.955 Mb/s
Actual Data Rate:   26.230 Mb/s / 9.656 Mb/s
Impulse Noise Prot:   36.1 sym / 0.0 sym
Interleave Delay:   0.53 ms / 0.0 ms
NFEC:         32 / 255
RFEC:         16 / 16
LSYMB:         16 / 2591
Interleave Depth:   1 / 1
Interleave Block:   32 / 255
LPATH:         0 / 0
Line Attenuation:   15.2dB / 26.6dB
Signal Attenuation:   19.5dB / 26.4dB
Noise Margin:      4.1dB / 6.3dB
Transmit power:      13.8dBm / 5.9dBm
FECS:         0 / 132831
ES:         0 / 13768
SES:         0 / 5
LOSS:         0 / 4
UAS:         75 / 75
HEC:         0 / 0
CRC_P:         0 / 0
CRCP_P:         0 / 0
15m Code Violations:   0 / 0
15m FEC Errors:      0 / 0
1d Code Violations:   0 / 15990
1d FEC Errors:      0 / 132831

It seems the high winds has killed my second line, crackling like crazy every time wind blows it.

Flip side, I switched the firmware back before I realised the problem and it confirms my earlier confusion - look at the version number.

Another possibility, maybe the line was always sketchy from day one and why its always synced so much lower than the main line.

[Edited for language - roseway]

« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 07:09:04 AM by roseway »
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madhatter

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Re: issue with openreach advice please
« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2021, 05:10:42 PM »

Confirmed with my DM200 regarding the Annex A or B.

In OpenWRT, if the DSL definition has the Annex setting as A - 5.8.1.8.1.6 is used.
If the the DSL definition has the Annex setting as B - 5.7.9.9.0.6 is used.
This also matches the naming of the file in lib/firmware
lantiq-vrx200-a-to-b.bspatch -> xcpe_581816_580B11_to_579906_574402.bspatch

Obviously to reduce the size of the OpenWRT system, they only ship one full firmware file and
just use the patch to switch to other version based on how the DSL has been defined.

Pity the naming convention for each version/release and which one is a later version is still a muddle. However Lantiq seem to be rather good at muddling things up - the dsl_control status details switch around the near/far and downstream/upstream within the same display.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: issue with openreach advice please
« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2021, 08:10:24 PM »

This also explains why when I had it to set VDSL Annex A it still worked on Annex B (and why the version displayed differently), because both firmwares work for all VDSL Annexes.

It is interesting though as it means technically OpenWRT lets you toggle two different firmware versions for VDSL.  Although considering the iffy naming scheme and that its merely a patch, I'd guess those are technically both the same firmware just with confusing version numbering and differences in the ADSL code.
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madhatter

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Re: issue with openreach advice please
« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2021, 10:26:20 AM »

Looking at the files and versioning there is some method in their madness.
Each filename is the combination of the VDSL driver level and the ADSL driver level.
The last digit of the VDSL level denotes whether the code includes vectoring or not,
6 - no vectoring, 7 - vectoring.
Same trick for the ADSL level as to which Annex is supported,
1 - Annex A, 2 - Annex B

5.8.1.8.1.6_5.8.0.B.1.1 is VDSL (no vectoring) _ ADSL Annex A
5.7.9.9.0.6_5.7.4.4.0.2 is VDSL (no vectoring) _ ADSL Annex B

As you say, in OpenWRT LuCI, typically the Annex setting would be used to select the correct
ADSL driver. However, when the DSL is VDSL it actually affects which VDSL driver is used.
 
If you needed vectoring, you would need to use another driver and override it, for example,

5.7.11.5.0.7_5.7.5.4.0.1 is VDSL (with vectoring) _ ADSL Annex A
but that firmware file could not be used for an ADSL Annex B line as the file does not include an
Annex B driver.
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