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Author Topic: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale  (Read 1164 times)

hushcoden

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TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« on: December 22, 2020, 07:25:28 PM »

I was having a look at Uno fibre offers and you can choose a package which uses either the BT Wholesale network or the TTB LLU network: can someone explain the pros and cons of those two networks?

Tia.
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j0hn

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2020, 08:25:34 PM »

No pros or cons really.
Both provide the same service.
Personally i think TTB LLU are better at resolving issues but that's just my opinion.
I haven't been on a TTB connection in a few years.

1 backhaul provider could be better than the other in Area A, while the opposite may be true in Area B.
1 will have better latency in Area A, the opposite in Area B

Some people have jumped between the 2 over the years across various ISP's and know which is better in their area and will have a preference.

Essentially though they offer the same thing. They both get your traffic from A to B just taking a different route.
If you were switched from 1 to the other without being told and your weren't inspecting your routing, you wouldn't notice.

BT Wholesale have slightly lower latency for me.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2020, 09:30:00 PM »

TTB has no IP profile and in my experience you get higher throughput
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2020, 09:47:59 PM »

Yeah its tricky, there is no way to know how your ISPs points of presence hook up within the network.

As I have both Zen on TTB and Plusnet on BTW, I honestly can't tell the difference in real world use, though there is about 2.5ms first hop difference in favour of Plusnet.

I think the biggest difference is the cost if you later want to move to an ISP that is only BTW and you're on TTB?  (or is that to do with the phone service, I don't entirely understand how the services work these days)
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jaydub

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2020, 10:11:04 PM »

Or use a supplier like iDNet that will switch you between the two without charge should you have any issues with their backhaul supplier.

Whilst I have been with IDNet, I have been on TTB, Zen and BTw backhauls and BTw works best for me on IDNet at my exchange.

IDNet operating on a rolling monthly contact so you aren't tied in if you want to leave.  They also discount you a month's fees if you pay annually up front (12 months for the price of 11)

If I was considering Uno, I think the lack of IP Profile and the fact that TTB is a 1 (+ VAT) cheaper than Btw would swing it for me.
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j0hn

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2020, 10:26:20 PM »

TTB has no IP profile and in my experience you get higher throughput

Yes it does.
They just don't publicly display it and publicly call it an IP Profile.

All backhaul providers must rate limit the Downstream before it hits the DSLAM.

You'll get a similar drop in throughput changing from Retx Low to high on both BTW and TTB.

They profile lines almost identically.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 10:29:10 PM by j0hn »
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banger

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2020, 11:44:40 PM »

Yes it does.
They just don't publicly display it and publicly call it an IP Profile.

All backhaul providers must rate limit the Downstream before it hits the DSLAM.

You'll get a similar drop in throughput changing from Retx Low to high on both BTW and TTB.

They profile lines almost identically.

Thank goodness someone has corrected this myth.
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Tim
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2020, 01:52:13 AM »

You'd certainly hope so.  You don't want lots of traffic going all the way down the backhaul to only drop them at the DSLAM.  Better to drop them higher up the chain where bandwidth is plentiful.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2020, 10:14:04 AM »

Yes it does.
They just don't publicly display it and publicly call it an IP Profile.

All backhaul providers must rate limit the Downstream before it hits the DSLAM.

You'll get a similar drop in throughput changing from Retx Low to high on both BTW and TTB.

They profile lines almost identically.

Well I got higher throughput at the same sync speed on the same line using TTB compared to BT.
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meritez

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2020, 11:55:26 AM »

Well I got higher throughput at the same sync speed on the same line using TTB compared to BT.

Must be better backhaul at the exchange.

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GigabitEthernet

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2020, 08:35:34 PM »

Must be better backhaul at the exchange.



Could be, fair point.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2020, 09:26:06 PM »

TalkTalk does use DHCP compared to PPoE for BTw (only for BT Broadband?), which has fewer overheads right?
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2020, 02:28:41 AM »

TalkTalk does use DHCP compared to PPoE for BTw (only for BT Broadband?), which has fewer overheads right?

When acting as backhaul for a third-party ISP then no, they work exactly the same as BTW.  I assume PPP terminates at the ISP so no matter which backhaul provider gets you there, the protocol you are using to connect remains the same.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 02:30:53 AM by Alex Atkin UK »
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2020, 12:08:50 PM »

When acting as backhaul for a third-party ISP then no, they work exactly the same as BTW.  I assume PPP terminates at the ISP so no matter which backhaul provider gets you there, the protocol you are using to connect remains the same.

Fine, well better backhaul must be the reason I had better performance than BTw then.

I will likely move back when my contract is up with BT.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: TTB LLU or BT Wholesale
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2020, 05:01:42 PM »

As I understand it BTw can go round the houses, they will backhaul to a larger exchange before generally going down to London where most ISPs have their PoP.

Although as I understand it there is no real reason to go to London at all, if your ISP has a PoP in an exchange nearer you.  So its all a matter of how your traffic gets to your ISPs PoP and where their physical network is.  It seems kinda crazy that everyone traffic has to terminate back at one central location at your ISP rather than getting onto the Internet more locally.

This is what I kinda miss about Digital Region.  Because it was a small South Yorkshire network, the ISPs all hooked in locally.  I had an almost direct link to a Sheffield data centre and from there to the Internet.  The latency to my friend on the same cabinet was insanely low too.
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