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Author Topic: VOIP Emergency Calls (Not talking about 999 !).  (Read 639 times)

tickmike

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VOIP Emergency Calls (Not talking about 999 !).
« on: December 18, 2020, 12:21:21 PM »

VOIP Emergency Calls.
Bear in mind we Do Not Get A Mobile Signal at home !.

With the arrival of FTTP soon  :)  I like a lot of other people in the same situation have been looking into getting rid of our BT Phone line (POTS)  but if I understand correctly 101, 111, 112, 119 numbers are Not Available with a VOIP phone system. :o
This is not ideal as the older you get and with Covid about there could be a greater need to call some of the above numbers for help.

Can the people using VOIP confirm this.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 02:25:42 PM by tickmike »
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siofjofj

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls.
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2020, 12:57:35 PM »

I do not use VOIP, however was looking at switching to it and note that AAISP's voice service does allow calls to 999 or 112 (see https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/calling-emergency-services/) as does sipgate (https://teamhelp.sipgate.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/204130942-Do-I-Have-Access-to-Emergency-Services-by-Dialling-999-). I would be surprised if BT's supplied digital voice service didn't also allow it.

Obviously your ability to call it depends on your internet connection working and your router and ATA (or whatever VOIP hardware you are using) remaining powered, so a UPS may be a good investment in this situation.
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j0hn

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls.
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2020, 01:08:18 PM »

I've used 111 on a couple VOIP services.

With 1 VOIP provider it just worked by dialling 111 and with the other it needed a 44 prefix before it.

I'm pretty sure they all work on BT's Digital Voice.

No technical reason they shouldn't work.
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broadstairs

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls.
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2020, 01:17:09 PM »

All this VOIP stuff seems to say that emergency numbers 'should' be available for free. In my view it should be 'law' that access to these number is available and free.

The other issue as already mentioned is that it requires an internet connection be up and running which it will not be in a power cut situation and although a UPS would be a good idea I cant see the vast majority of people having one. This clearly has not been though through once again. I can see people signing up to VOIP without understanding the limitations! It's no good them complaining after a power cut and their house burning down because they could not phone the fire services. I know power cuts are not as common as they used to be but they still do happen and not everyone has a mobile and good mobile signal, fine in towns generally but not in rural locations

Stuart
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siofjofj

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls.
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2020, 01:40:13 PM »

The other issue as already mentioned is that it requires an internet connection be up and running which it will not be in a power cut situation and although a UPS would be a good idea I cant see the vast majority of people having one.
This was presumably the original thought when VOIP was provided by the Openreach ONT which was supplied with a BBU (Battery Backup Unit). Of course, this method of VOIP provision is now depreciated in favour of the ISP providing their own arrangement which invariably does not include any backup power solution. That said, if one can locally power their network equipment during a power cut, VOIP over FTTP (or indeed ADSL) will be better than VOIP over VDSL/FTTC as the FTTP OLTs (and ADSL DSLAMs) should stay up indefinitely (well, until the exchange generator runs out of diesel, at which point voice over POTS will also stop working) while the VDSL cabinets only have around 8 hours of battery backup.

It's no good them complaining after a power cut...
You would be amazed how many people were surprised and/or complained during the 36 hour power cut in the Lancaster area during Storm Desmond in 2015 that their DECT phones did not work (mobile phones were also useless due to the large area effected taking out all the base stations within range)! A local Openreach engineer told me he had a queue of people at his door wanting to borrow his butt phone. It's just not something people consider, and to be honest most people look at me like I'm mad when I suggest they buy a corded telephone for troubleshooting and for situations like this. I would imagine this fact is part of the reason why it is not considered important for ISPs to provide a backup power solution, as if people just plug a set of DECT phones into their battery-backed ATA the whole thing is pointless.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 01:43:29 PM by siofjofj »
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls.
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2020, 01:57:03 PM »

know power cuts are not as common as they used to be but they still do happen and not everyone has a mobile and good mobile signal, fine in towns generally but not in rural locations

I was under the impression they were MORE common than they used to be, as we do not have the spare capacity we used to as power stations are closing far quicker than we are building new ones.

I do think not including the battery backup unit with the ONT (and having the VoIP directly from the ONT too, at the very least for emergency calls only) is wrong, this should have been mandatory especially as the one they used worked with common AA NiMH batteries so is cheap to maintain.
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vic0239

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls (Not talking about 999 !).
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2020, 02:38:19 PM »

We get quite a number of power cuts here over the course of the year and often due to "transient" faults, once a tangled fertiliser bag on the power lines or fallen trees or branches although there have been some equipment failures. Most are of a of short duration where my UPS keeps the internet going, but on occasion lasting much longer. In view of this I moved my VoIP number back to the fixed line, the batteries in the exchange last much, much longer than my UPS.

As far as the emergency services are concerned you should register your address with the VoIP provider so that the emergency services know where to attend. This can usually be done through their online portal.
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tickmike

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls (Not talking about 999 !).
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2020, 02:45:20 PM »

Just to point out I am not talking about 999 calls.
  101 (Police non-emergency) and 111 (NHS Medical Advice) Covid test and trace 119 are NOT available over VOIP I have read something to do with a lot of the VOIP firms have not reserved these numbers on there systems and some are off uk shores . (999 calls are available)

Regarding the BBU for the ONT, I have cleared this with Kcom (Business) and Executive Level Openreach team that if needed (eg if do to age and no mobile signal ) we will get a BBU.   ;D

Had about 6 to 8 power cuts this year.   :(
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I RECOMMEND TRYING PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxos.com).
I have a set of 6 fixed IP's From my Kcom Business isp.
BT ADSL2 (G992.3) line>HG612 as a Modem, Bridge, WAN Not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >pfSense (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2 linked Ethernet

sevenlayermuddle

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls (Not talking about 999 !).
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2020, 03:16:25 PM »

Emergency access used to be taken a lot more seriously.

Mid eighties, the office I worked got refurbed with fancy new push button phones and a dtmf PABX.

The phones in the lifts kept getting stolen, but never those in the offices although they looked identical, and I wondered why.  I think the answer was that the BT exchange was still using pulse dialling, hence the dtmf phones might not work in an emergency.  They were also no use to thieves as they’d not work at home.  But if you were stuck in a lift you might be in more trouble, so those in the lifts were set to pulse dialling, hence more attractive to thieves, but also much safer in emergency if the PABX was down.

The answer nowadays is of course, in an emergency, use your mobile to get help.  And I guess, you have to hope there’s a good signal in that steel lift within the concrete shaft.
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j0hn

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls (Not talking about 999 !).
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2020, 03:35:31 PM »

Just to point out I am not talking about 999 calls.
  101 (Police non-emergency) and 111 (NHS Medical Advice) Covid test and trace 119 are NOT available over VOIP

Not sure where you read this.
I haven't tried 119 but 111 DOES work in my experience.

Quote
Regarding the BBU for the ONT, I have cleared this with Kcom (Business) and Executive Level Openreach team that if needed (eg if do to age and no mobile signal ) we will get a BBU.   ;D

No idea why they told you that.
You can't even order FVA any more so an ONT BBU would be absolutely useless.
You need the router to be powered and a BBU can't do that.

It's now the ISP's responsibility to provide a UPS.
BT have a pretty decent UPS for FTTP.
It can power the ONT and router no problem.

They no longer provide the ONT's that were designed for the BBU (with a BBU port) although the newer ONT's should work with them provided they have the same barrel size and power requirements.

ISP's are only required to provide a UPS to vunerable customers and only in areas with no mobile signal.
They can of course provide them at their own discretion and can optionally charge those who don't qualify that want 1.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 03:39:22 PM by j0hn »
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broadstairs

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls (Not talking about 999 !).
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2020, 03:51:11 PM »

This is to airy fairy in my opinion. It should be mandatory to supply UPS everywhere  or at least if VOIP is mandatory.

Stuart
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meritez

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Re: VOIP Emergency Calls (Not talking about 999 !).
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2020, 12:32:34 AM »

VOIP Emergency Calls.
Bear in mind we Do Not Get A Mobile Signal at home !.

With the arrival of FTTP soon  :)  I like a lot of other people in the same situation have been looking into getting rid of our BT Phone line (POTS)  but if I understand correctly 101, 111, 112, 119 numbers are Not Available with a VOIP phone system. :o
This is not ideal as the older you get and with Covid about there could be a greater need to call some of the above numbers for help.

Can the people using VOIP confirm this.

Hi as an employee of a Business ISP and Communications Provider, we have had to follow the below document since last year:
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0021/112692/Consolidated-General-Conditions.pdf

Page 8 states:
Code: [Select]
A3.6 In order to make accurate and reliable Caller Location Information available to the
Emergency Organisations handling the calls to “112” and “999”, a Regulated Provider must
comply with the following requirements:
(a) where it provides an Electronic Communications Service at a fixed location, the Caller
Location Information must, at least, accurately reflect the fixed location of the EndUser’s terminal equipment including the full postal address;
(b) where it provides a Mobile Communications Service, the Caller Location Information
must include, at least, the Cell Identification of the cell from which the call is being
made and, where available, an indication of the radius of coverage of the cell. In
exceptional circumstances, where the Cell Identification is temporarily unavailable for
technical reasons, the Caller Location Information must include the Zone Code; and
(c) where it provides a VoIP Outbound Call Service:
(i) it must, where its VoIP Outbound Call Service is to be used principally at a single
fixed location, recommend its Domestic and Small Business Customers to register
with it the address of the place where the VoIP Outbound Call Service is to be used
prior to its activation and update that address information if there is any change;
and
(ii) where it has a reasonable expectation that, or has been informed that, its VoIP
Outbound Call Service is to be accessed from multiple locations, it must recommend
that its Domestic and Small Business Customers register and update the location
information associated with it, whenever accessing the VoIP Outbound Call Service
from a new location.

Any of our customers can call 101, 111, 112, 119 numbers as we comply with and frequently update the location of our end users.
This entire Pandemic has been a lot of paperwork, as we have had to update addresses as a lot of people are now working from home.

Some VoIP providers seem to be registering telephone numbers against their company address and not their customers, they then ban 101, 111, 112, 119 numbers from being called as they would end up with an Ambulance or Police or Fire Brigade rocking up at the Communication Provider's registered address, and not the customer's.



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