Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Bonded line help  (Read 2543 times)

meritez

  • Content Team
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1623
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2020, 10:31:46 AM »

I think I'm struggling with this as well. Is there really no other router that will bond two connections into one?

Mikrotik is worth considering, there are lengthy articles on the AAISP wiki about how to do it with 5 x ADSL Lines: https://support.aa.net.uk/RouterOS_bonding
Logged

Weaver

  • Senior Kitizen
  • ******
  • Posts: 11459
  • Retd s/w dev; A&A; 4x7km ADSL2 lines; Firebrick
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2020, 12:15:53 PM »

Don’t have one IPv4 address. Ask AA for as many as you need and cover your whole LAN with real addresses, so it’s goodbye to the horrors of NAT.

The question about 5G is all down to the dongle models. Ask AA about particular dongle models. it’s just that they have tested certain ones, that’s all. If one presents a compatible interface then it doesn’t matter that it’s 5G. It depends on whether or not you want to put an AA SIM in the dongle ; if it’s an AA one then it will be 4G/3G.

Whatever router you use, AA will typically give you one IP for the router’s WAN i/f and then route the whole of your IP blocks through the router to your LAN. That’s how my network works for IPv4; I have one address for the WAN-facing i/f of the Brick and a /26 for my LAN. IPv6 you just route one of your /64s say to you LAN and you can fiddle about with the routing using the knobs in AA’s clueless.aa.net.uk server. Do ask AA about this. They’re extremely helpful.

Mikrotik are good. The advantage of an AA Firebrick is all the free support and the buck-stops here syndrome, any problem and it’s always AA’s fault. I wouldn’t save money and experience more hassle, but that’s just me.

I’m pretty sure that Mikrotik would do what you want; ask them, but then you’ll have a learning curve getting it set up and AA won’t be able to debug it for you. I had an either a Juniper or Cisco router secondhand (I’ve gone blank which as it was a long time ago) when I had two lines, and of course AA couldn’t help me with it and I couldn’t get it working properly so I bought a Firebrick instead which just worked instantly.
Logged

Alex Atkin UK

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
    • Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2020, 02:11:43 PM »

That’s a good tip from DaveC. Alex has got this wrong :) ; afaik, there’s no need for a ‘standard’, as bonding here isn’t done with a protocol; it just distributes the IP packets between lines and that’s all there is to it, so there doesn’t have to be a Firebrick at both ends.

What I meant by "standard" was a documented method that is compatible with stock Linux/BSD kernels (or at least documented patches) and standard routing/packet filtering.  From what you just said, that IS what they've done?

I understand why they push the Firebrick solution, they developed it specifically as a managed solution for businesses which is fair enough.  I take exception however at the lack of documentation for hobbyists.
Logged
Broadband: Zen Full Fibre 900 + Three 5G Routers: pfSense (Intel N100) + Huawei CPE Pro 2 H122-373 WiFi: Zyxel NWA210AX
Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, Netgear MS510TXPP, Netgear GS110EMX My Broadband History & Ping Monitors

Weaver

  • Senior Kitizen
  • ******
  • Posts: 11459
  • Retd s/w dev; A&A; 4x7km ADSL2 lines; Firebrick
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2020, 04:16:05 PM »

The manuals for the Firebrick are on the website, so there is some documentation. There’s also the support wiki. The manuals need a lot more work: they need example XML snippets or sometimes complete config file examples. Burrakucat goes mad about the manuals; do not set him off  ;)

If afraid I’m not following you Alex about the point about ‘standard’ and compatible with Linux kernels. Remember there’s no protocol here, it’s just a stream of ordinary IP packets distributed over n links and nothing more; it’s not like MLPPP or LACP, or multi link TCP, it’s just pure IP only and the receiving end has no way to know that there’s anything funny going on, it’s just pure, normal IP that they’re receiving. Apologies if I’m being too dim here.  :(  Penny drops : you said ‘standard’ (adj.) ie = normal and I perhaps read that as ‘a standard’ (noun) meaning a document?  :-[

They don’t push the Firebrick solution as part of being an ISP: you can use anything you like and they have a support wiki where you can add more documentation and howtos for any kit you want. It’s just that they understand Firebricks so can directly support them and Firebrick Ltd is a joint venture of AA’s with WatchFront. So on the other hand they are a Firebrick seller and sell kit to high-end home users, corporates, resellers and ISPs. Resellers offer managed service packages I presume.

It’s the Office::1 service which is a managed solution for business. They don’t manage your Firebrick for you, they just will support you or configure it for you.

I might be going mad here, but I suspect that at the CPE end, you could just have two modems connected to two lines and connect them to a switch and then the IP packets from the two lines would just arrive in the LAN and you’d have double-speed downstream with no Firebrick at all, just no double-speed upstream. Is that right or am I going crackers?  ??? :-[
Can you do ECMP with a Linux box acting as a router?

Take a look at the docs and see what you think. I can’t lend you one to play with as I’ve already given my FB2700 to another of our kitizens as I didn’t need three Firebricks.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 04:22:46 PM by Weaver »
Logged

vic0239

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 519
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2020, 05:50:46 PM »

I got a refurbished Firebrick from A&A at a reduced cost, when the power supply failed it was replaced at no cost to me. At the time of purchase I had two lines and wished to bond them and found the sample HTML on their support site was perfectly adequate to get it working. I do recall that some configuration on the Control Panel was necessary to route traffic down both lines, but this was self-explanatory. I’m no longer using the brick since I moved to FTTP, but do retain the configuration files for reference. I do agree with Weaver that the official manuals are hard work.
Logged
Lothian Broadband 900/900 + AAISP VDSL, Vigor2865Vac, MikroTik rb260gsp, ZyXel NWA50AX WiFi AP.

Alex Atkin UK

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
    • Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2020, 07:12:46 PM »

If afraid I’m not following you Alex about the point about ‘standard’ and compatible with Linux kernels. Remember there’s no protocol here, it’s just a stream of ordinary IP packets distributed over n links and nothing more; it’s not like MLPPP or LACP, or multi link TCP, it’s just pure IP only and the receiving end has no way to know that there’s anything funny going on, it’s just pure, normal IP that they’re receiving. Apologies if I’m being too dim here.  :(  Penny drops : you said ‘standard’ (adj.) ie = normal and I perhaps read that as ‘a standard’ (noun) meaning a document?  :-[

AFAIK on a IP network there is usually only ONE route to any destination, using multiple interfaces to reach the same destination is kinda none-standard.

You may be right about how incoming works, as presumably BGP takes care of the routing for that at the ISP side.  As you said though, the problem is determining which interface traffic going back to the other way uses.

Its those instructions I'm referring to when saying there is no documentation, exact details on how to configure the OS to do the packet delivery the same way the Firebrick is configured.  I'd be very tempted by their tunneling service if I could replicate bonding over it using my existing equipment, but its absolutely not worth the cost of a Firebrick to achieve it when I won't need it in 1-2 years time as I will be on FTTP.

There may be documentation, but if its Firebrick specific that's not really helpful.

I have OpenWRT routers and PCs coming out of my ears, it wouldn't be hard to dedicate one to doing this and just proxy any traffic I want going out that way, or re-route it from pfSense, although I'd hope this could be done entirely on pfSense itself.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 07:16:37 PM by Alex Atkin UK »
Logged
Broadband: Zen Full Fibre 900 + Three 5G Routers: pfSense (Intel N100) + Huawei CPE Pro 2 H122-373 WiFi: Zyxel NWA210AX
Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, Netgear MS510TXPP, Netgear GS110EMX My Broadband History & Ping Monitors

Pony1982

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 15
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2020, 07:16:37 PM »

I might be going mad here, but I suspect that at the CPE end, you could just have two modems connected to two lines and connect them to a switch and then the IP packets from the two lines would just arrive in the LAN and you’d have double-speed downstream with no Firebrick at all, just no double-speed upstream. Is that right or am I going crackers?  ??? :-[

Thanks very much for all the help. Really useful. The quoted bit is key as far as I'm concerned. If I could double speeds using a standard routing setup, it'd help me out considerably. Question in that instance is - what does the FB give me, if I was purely using it to combine two lines.
Logged

Weaver

  • Senior Kitizen
  • ******
  • Posts: 11459
  • Retd s/w dev; A&A; 4x7km ADSL2 lines; Firebrick
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2020, 07:52:36 PM »

I have an FB2500, later got an FB2700 and more recently an Fb2900 and the FB2700 went to one of our forum members.
Logged

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2020, 10:53:28 PM »

Burrakucat goes mad about the manuals; do not set him off  ;)

They are absolutely fine if you want to read a lecture on some aspect of networking but are close to near useless as to how to configure some aspect of the device to which they relate.  :-X
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

Weaver

  • Senior Kitizen
  • ******
  • Posts: 11459
  • Retd s/w dev; A&A; 4x7km ADSL2 lines; Firebrick
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2020, 11:24:05 PM »

Burakkucat speaks the truth. Luckily there is limitless free support if you get one from AA.
Logged

Alex Atkin UK

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
    • Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2020, 04:53:10 AM »

They are absolutely fine if you want to read a lecture on some aspect of networking but are close to near useless as to how to configure some aspect of the device to which they relate.  :-X

That's basically my problem with networking in general not just AA.  The documentation is either really simplistic and doesn't cover the detail you need, or its super detailed and impossible to understand as a human being.
Logged
Broadband: Zen Full Fibre 900 + Three 5G Routers: pfSense (Intel N100) + Huawei CPE Pro 2 H122-373 WiFi: Zyxel NWA210AX
Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, Netgear MS510TXPP, Netgear GS110EMX My Broadband History & Ping Monitors

Pony1982

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 15
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2020, 07:18:09 AM »

That's basically my problem with networking in general not just AA.  The documentation is either really simplistic and doesn't cover the detail you need, or its super detailed and impossible to understand as a human being.
you're all scaring me a bit here. from everything I've read, I think the FB will make the bonded line experience better. I also understand that it works well with the AA VOIP telephony service. So, the plan is to have the just route to the Unifi and hopefully not that much changes. If - big if - I do get comfortable with the FB, I might try and drive the unifi APs and little switches off the FB.

Logged

Weaver

  • Senior Kitizen
  • ******
  • Posts: 11459
  • Retd s/w dev; A&A; 4x7km ADSL2 lines; Firebrick
Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2020, 07:48:08 AM »

As for WAPs, I just have a switch connected to my FB2900 and then two old ZyXEL WAPs connected to that with long ethernet cables.

One of the WAPs is in turn connected to a black and white cat who interfaces to it by parking her bum on the top, for warmth. (Beileag)
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
 

anything