Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030  (Read 654 times)

tiffy

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2020, 10:54:01 AM »

As a relatively recent hybrid owner I certainly have noted that deployment of the cabin heater will immediately start the engine and keep it running for longer periods during urban driving, not so noticable on non urban driving as the engine is usually active most of the time at the higher speeds.
Use of the AC produces the same effect but to a greater extent likely due to the compressor loading, not sure if the AC compressor is engine driven as per a normal pertol/diesel vehicle or electrically driven as per the power steering pump in a hybrid, either way, more energy is required.

So yes, SLM is correct, without really thinking about it I am less inclined to use the heater or AC and more inclined to drive around with my jacket on and /or with a window open than I did with my previous diesel vehicle, perhaps just the over enthusiasm to try and achieve max MPG and early novelty with the hybrid which will eventually wear off with the winter chill ?
Logged
Plusnet 40/10 - DSLStats/RPi3B - ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Modem/VMG-3925-B10B Router Huawei Cab

Chunkers

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 457
  • Brick Wall head-banger
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2020, 05:08:33 PM »

 I just switch the pre-heat on remotely in the morning using my phone and the car is still plugged in so minimal battery usage.  Its true that EV's use more power per mile in the winter due to lights / wipers etc (just like a petrol car does), the range is reduced but not significantly, say 10-20 miles.

A/C is on all the time so in winter its heat and in summer its cooling, I don't notice much difference tbh.
Logged

sevenlayermuddle

  • Helpful
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5257
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2020, 06:18:42 PM »

Its true that EV's use more power per mile in the winter due to lights / wipers etc (just like a petrol car does), the range is reduced but not significantly, say 10-20 miles.

Energy for lights and wipers should be an immeasurable drop in the ocean compared to energy for propelling the vehicle.  If you notice any difference whatsoever from lights and wipers, in a petrol diesel or electric car, I’d suspect there may be a fault.
Logged

Ronski

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3836
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2020, 08:13:48 PM »

What nobody's really mentioned is the cost to repair these vehicles. I'm a workshop manager for a haulage company, and have been repairing vehicles for over 30 years, they have gradually become more and more complicated and even main dealers struggle with diagnostics so as a small business we have no chance. It's all well and good for the people that can afford a brand new car every few years when the warranty runs out, or lease their car but the majority of people simply can't afford to do that and run the lottery of very expensive repairs (my brother had to dispose of a car recently because it was too expensive to repair and no one really knew what was wrong with it), and that's just internal combustion engined cars. I can only imagine that EV cars are going to be even worse, and even more expensive to repair, what are they going to be like when they are 5 to 10 years old, beyond economical repair? That's what worries me, my wife's car is 13 years old, and my car is 11 years old, my brothers even older, how many EV's are going to manage that, and who at that age of car is going to afford to replace the batteries?

Logged
Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 390/36  ;D

jelv

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1701
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2020, 11:02:18 PM »

EV's a way, way less complicated than combustion engined vehicles - that is one of the advantages, cheaper servicing.
Logged
Line rental: Pulse8, Broadband: AAISP Home::1 FTTC 80/20, Mobile: id Mobile

sevenlayermuddle

  • Helpful
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5257
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2020, 12:49:12 AM »

It’s not necessarily a question of complexity, it is also of feasibility.

I still have the owner’s manual for my father’s 1971 Ford Escort.  It includes full instructions on how to service the vehicle including how to change and adjust the brake shoes, and how to adjust the carb idle mixture screw, among other things.   Emphasise, that’s just the glovebox owner’s manual provided with the car, not a workshop manual.

Modern cars, even fossil fuelled,  tend now to have ‘electrically operated’ parking brakes, not user-serviceable.  And the authorities in both EU and US have long since outlawed user-adjustable mixture screws.  Even on lawn mowers and hedge cutters, if the carb needs adjusted, you’re meant to pay somebody to do it.  You’ll  need some quite special tools (available on Ebay) to do it diy, and risk prosecution if caught.

I’m not really sure how any of that relates to EVs but they are by definition high tech, which makes it very easy for the manufacturer to impose a ‘ransom’ on any repairs or adjustments.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 12:51:53 AM by sevenlayermuddle »
Logged

Ronski

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3836
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2020, 06:14:59 AM »

EV's a way, way less complicated than combustion engined vehicles - that is one of the advantages, cheaper servicing.

I wasn't talking about servicing, I'm talking about when something goes wrong, especially once out of warranty.
Logged
Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 390/36  ;D

Chunkers

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 457
  • Brick Wall head-banger
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2020, 08:26:11 AM »

In general electrical / solid state is generally considered more reliable than mechanical, this is born out in the general improvement in vehicle reliability since we started to go solid state on stuff like fuel injection, ignition, Ecus's since the 70's. Basically, the fewer moving parts the better.

Electric car drive-trains are notable for being simple,having fewer moving parts e.g. no clutch, no gearbox. I guess we won't know for sure but I think its a reasonable assumption to say that they will be more reliable than their ICE equivalents.

From a maintenance point of view the motor of EV's are relatively small and light compared to a combustion engine.
Logged

chenks

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 923
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2020, 09:07:36 AM »

more reliable, who knows.
have we had any EV cars yet where the battery has reached "end of life" and requires replacing? and at what cost?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 11:12:06 AM by chenks »
Logged

Ronski

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3836
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2020, 10:20:26 AM »

In general electrical / solid state is generally considered more reliable than mechanical, this is born out in the general improvement in vehicle reliability since we started to go solid state on stuff like fuel injection, ignition, Ecus's since the 70's. Basically, the fewer moving parts the better.

Chunkers I think you're looking at this from a new car owners point of view, I've been maintaining trucks, vans and to much lesser extent cars for over 30 years. The older trucks we maintain simply don't have the electrical faults that more recent vehicles have especially as they get older. Yes some of it is is related to the emissions systems, but an awful lot is with other systems which will still be present on EVs. EVs will then have a lot of electronics controlling charging and the motors which will given time go wrong. The motors still have cooling systems and lubrication systems, which may be sealed for life, but that's just a fallacy as oil degrades and should always be changed.

If your that convinced that your car is going be cheap to repair then keep it long term, 10 to 15 years.
Logged
Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 390/36  ;D

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 9320
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 × 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2020, 09:48:19 PM »

Possibly some bad physics here? The heat lost from a combustion engine is energy wasted/lost. Energy lost is what it it.
Logged

broadstairs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3363
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2020, 09:57:38 PM »

I think at present for anyone who needs a car with a guaranteed 300 mile minimum range the only option at present which is anywhere near affordable is a hybrid and even then the price point is at the high end. Currently the technology needs to get probably two orders of magnitude better before I'd even consider an EV and only then if the price was comparable with an equivalent petrol car. That also assumes I can afford a new car because there will be no EVs secondhand.

Stuart
Logged
ISP:TalkTalk Connection:FTTC Cab:ECI Router:Netgear D6220

sevenlayermuddle

  • Helpful
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5257
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2020, 11:48:49 PM »

Possibly some bad physics here? The heat lost from a combustion engine is energy wasted/lost. Energy lost is what it it.

Good point, fair criticism.
Logged

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 9320
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 × 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2020, 11:51:07 PM »

Indeed, thermodynamics’ basic laws are why internal combustion engines are currently so rubbish.
Logged

sevenlayermuddle

  • Helpful
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5257
Re: no more new petrol/diesel from 2030
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2020, 12:10:53 AM »


Indeed, thermodynamics’ basic laws are why internal combustion engines are currently so rubbish.
Quote

I meant, fair criticism of my own earlier points.   :blush:
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3