Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: IPv6 - should I be fiddling with it?  (Read 1090 times)

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 31993
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: IPv6 - should I be fiddling with it?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2020, 04:21:20 PM »

In private discussions with Weaver over the past years, I have tried to understand IPv6 but have comprehensively failed (other than the basics).  :-[  So I remain IPv4 only, whilst waiting for IPv8 to be developed and released.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2098
    • My Broadband History
Re: IPv6 - should I be fiddling with it?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2020, 04:56:09 PM »

@Alex I donít really understand the peer-to-peer thing. That is impossible with most domestic firewall-routers because (a) they are firewalls and (b) domestic unclueful users have NAT generally and (c) most users are clueless about networking and network architecture so couldnít even configure things appropriately anyway if they had the capability.

Basically they depend on enough users having uPNP enabled on their router so that those users can host game sessions.  PC gaming has the same issue I believe, except its even more cryptic as there is no standard for incoming port usage.

In theory, Xbox uses IPv6 Teredo but god knows how that actually works in practice.
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) Zen: Home Hub 5A OpenWrt Plusnet: VMG-3925-B10B Voxi 4G: Hauwei B535-232 Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors & Zen Referral

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 9541
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 ◊ 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: IPv6 - should I be fiddling with it?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2020, 09:31:42 PM »

For Burakkucat I have not done all the work in explaining it well. I ought to take a look at wikipedia on the subject. I recommend that Hurricane Electric Ďpracticalsí course to you, a good way to learn and you donít need an IPv6 ISP.

@Alex I see; the games use uPnP to manipulate NAT. Have never used it; wouldnít allow it. I donít want anyone DOSing me or trying to break into my machines or eating my CPU time.

Teredo does work (for me); I tried it out on Windows Vista / 7. Itís really clever. Hurricane Electric provided the network for Microsoft when I tried it. Whenever you fire up an app that needs IPv6 in Windows and the internet connection is IPv4-only, then it starts Teredo to make the app run.

An example of such an app was Windows Live messenger (RIP?) which was IPv6-only and used peer-to-peer with firewall-busting of some sort iirc. They used IPv6 because that was the sane way to get peer-to-peer to work in any environment. That started Teredo whenever necessary.
Logged

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2098
    • My Broadband History
Re: IPv6 - should I be fiddling with it?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2020, 03:09:11 AM »

Yeah I don't get if/when Teredo kicks in as it certainly doesn't for web browsing.  I guess its only for Microsofts own services or things that might not support IPv4?
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) Zen: Home Hub 5A OpenWrt Plusnet: VMG-3925-B10B Voxi 4G: Hauwei B535-232 Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors & Zen Referral

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 9541
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 ◊ 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: IPv6 - should I be fiddling with it?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2020, 07:19:10 AM »

Iím not sure. I suspect that any app that demands IPv6 connectivity will kickstart Teredo and web browsers donít; they just check to see if IPv6 is available rather than demanding it. Either that or Windows Live Messenger explicitly started Teredo and I was wrong in my assumption. I may have read something in Microsoftís core networking blog.
Logged

Chunkers

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 479
  • Brick Wall head-banger
Re: IPv6 - should I be fiddling with it?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2020, 09:22:10 AM »

Hmm, so IPv6 is not the natural successor to IPv4 that I thought it was?  I think I need to get back in my box ....  ;)
Logged

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 9541
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 ◊ 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: IPv6 - should I be fiddling with it?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2020, 10:00:53 AM »

I think that it should be all about wanting to self-educate right now and no other reason unless you are a business network owner.

It certainly is the natural successor, but people are being very slow in cleaning up their act. We will start to see more and more adoption of IPv6 by corporates as, like Microsoft, they donít want to pay $10-20 per seat for IPv4 addresses even if they can get them at all. Their server farms are needing IPv4 Ďrealí global addresses of course unlike the corporates who use NAT and 10.0.0.0/8 addresses internally. Mobile networks will wake up now and one day start using IPv6 rather than having to deal with the nightmare that is CGNAT an all the potential screw-ups that it entails.

But the point is you have time. You can start using the first IPv6-only websites, some of which have already been around for ten years. Like http://loopsofzen.co.uk which is IPv6-only, at 2001:8b0:0:30::666:102 - In decadesí time, more and more will start to appear when all users have IPv6 and the IPv4-only fraction starts to go down and down to a safe-considered level.

If you have problem kit, just get rid of it if needed. With a decent modern router and a sane IPv6 ISP, itís incredibly easy to get going and you can put your toe in the water first by using the Hurricane Electric tunnelbroker.net tunnel I mentioned earlier, which is free. I just filled out the RA element in the XML config in my Firebrick and specified the prefix for my LAN (which is 2001:8b0:xxxx:0::/64) and it all just worked.

I have tried out IPv6-only, which is indeed hardcore, on a hosted Raspberry Pi hosted by Mythic Beasts, which has no IPv4 address. That will make a very interesting experiment for you !

One thing you can do is:- donít buy non-ipv6 kit or software; vote with your feet, or even better moan at manufacturers/authors/ISPs. Like I did with Zen. And even with AA: I have repeatedly moaned at them about the lack of IPv6 on their 4G data SIMs, although itís not something that they can easily fix as they are at the mercy of their stupid service providers AQL and/or Three.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 10:19:41 AM by Weaver »
Logged

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2098
    • My Broadband History
Re: IPv6 - should I be fiddling with it?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2020, 06:50:58 PM »

Indeed, my VPS provider charges extra for IPv4 while providing IPv6 as standard.  I'd imagine IPv4 is going to get more and more expensive as companies use up their allocation.
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) Zen: Home Hub 5A OpenWrt Plusnet: VMG-3925-B10B Voxi 4G: Hauwei B535-232 Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors & Zen Referral
Pages: 1 [2]
 

anything