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Author Topic: Openreach local work  (Read 1716 times)

jimmyca69

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Openreach local work
« on: October 23, 2020, 05:36:15 PM »

Evening all,

Just wondering if those more knowledgeable than me could provide input on potential timescales around FTTP availability.

Earlier this year it was announced that my local exchange (Carmarthen) was part of the rural FTP rollout, on checking the OR fibre checker and other sites it said no plans for me personally.

However for the past 2 days OR and a local contractor (Telnet?) have been in my estate (new build in 2011) running new cables. They got to the access point nearest my house today and on politely asking them, they confirmed they are running new fibre cables from the local cab.

So, the questions I have are 1) Given the above is there any chance that FTTP wouldn't be available to me? i.e. I shouldnt get excited and 2) From the point of them laying new fibre cables, what sort of timescale is it before being able to place any such order for services?

Thanks!
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bbnovice

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2020, 06:50:41 PM »

Hi Jimmy

See my thread entitled "Ordered FTTP but forsee a problem".

The general upgrade to FTTP in my local area was done by a bunch of OR sub contractors rather than by OR themselves.

I was offered a regrade to FTTP from FTTC by BT within days of the major works being completed.

I accepted the BT offer but I have been waiting ever since for connection due to problems with blocked OR ducts in the footpath. This has been going on for 2 months and is still not resolved.

I get the impression from BT that OR could be being overwhelmed with the workload arising from the FTTP regrade programme. I also suspect from comments made by genuine OR engineers that the standard of the work done by the sub contractors may leave something to be desired.

Eventually, and due to my frustration,  I had to raise a formal complaint with BT over this fiasco and to be fair their Complaints department have been very helpful. But so far even they have not been 100% sucessful in getting OR to meet agreed deadlines.

So in summary. BT seems to offer FTTP regrades to customers soon after the major works are done. But if there is an installation problem thereafter you could be in for quite a wait  - so relax and go with the flow. 
 


     
 
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j0hn

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2020, 10:55:54 PM »

Such problems are pretty rare in new build developments.

Anything built from the mid to late 90's onwards is a simple deployment 99% of the time. It's not often they need to dig a blocked duct in shiny new estates.

If Telent (not Telnet) were in the street pulling in fibre to your nearest chamber then FTTP is definitely coming.

In rare cases it could be a Fibre On Demand order by someone in the street which would only give FTTP to whoever ordered it and those who share the same distribution point as the orderer. This is a bespoke FTTP build that costs 8k+ to order.

It's likely just normal FTTP though.
Timescales can be from a month to 6 months+ till it's live and available to order.
New builds are usually much quicker and with my new build it only took a couple afternoons with to pull the cables through and then connect all the kit in the chambers.
It was available to order within a couple months of the fibre being pulled in to the streets.
I was activated within a few weeks of ordering.

You need to keep in mind that there is a pandemic going on which is still having a major impact on OpenReach.
It's affecting both their own workforce with many engineers self isolating or shielding and it's affecting timescales for civilis works.

My own install was delayed by around 10 days due to COVID pressures.
I was thrilled with the effort put in by OpenReach despite the terrible communication i had from my ISP BT.

OpenReach are prioritising people who have lost service completely or installations for those with no current service.
Low speed complaints and the likes are being treated with a little less priority.
In saying all that the FTTP build and home installations are still going ahead as normal. Just be aware there may be slight delays. Thankfully most people appreciate the circumstances.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2020, 11:18:35 AM »

j0hn is absolutely spot on with his comments above . There is a crisis going on at the minute that sees priority being placed on customers with no service rather than upgrading.

The vast majority (I'd say 95%) of FTTP work is being done with various business partners such as Morrisons, Telent, Quinn's, Kelly's etc tec ..... but our DL (Direct Labour) do get involved sometimes, usually with full-DiG PON's.

Jimmy's new-build estate won't be like your scenario bbnovice as his FTTP programme of build will fall under 'Retro New Sites'. As j0hn moots, these ducted estates are generally very easy to build. 
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bbnovice

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2020, 06:24:53 PM »

I'm sorry but the situation is just unacceptable.

I was contacted by phone by BT to regrade at the start of September which I accepted. I did not ask them for the regrade.

The original installation date was meant to be early in September. The dates have constantly slipped and currently I have a revised date of 12 January 2021.

I can tell you BT Complaints are not happy with OR constantly missing the dates they have agreed with them either, as its making BT Complaints look silly.

BT have now sent out personalised mail shots in the local area inviting customers to regrade to FTTP. I am aware of 2 others in my street who have responded to this, and as they are offering it free of charge I expect there probably others as well. They will have to wait as the blocked duct also feeds them.

Both BT and OR are probably equally to blame. BT for raising expectations that OR cannot fulfill, and OR for giving dates that they constantly fail to meet.

I suspect the January 2021 installation date was given to persuade me to cancel the order. But today I had a visit from OR although the final installation date remains unchanged!!!

 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 06:32:56 PM by bbnovice »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2020, 07:20:45 PM »

I'm sorry but the situation is just unacceptable.

I was contacted by phone by BT to regrade at the start of September which I accepted. I did not ask them for the regrade.



 

I understand your frustration and the fault probably does lie 50/50 with BT and OR ??

But the fact still remains, that OR have had to prioritise their workstacks due to an ever-increasing load due to Covid restrictions.

It's not a get out clause, it's genuinely 'a thang'.

 
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RealAleMadrid

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2020, 07:42:39 PM »

Sounds like they did some useful work I was wondering if they just come for a chat. ;D
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jimmyca69

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2020, 01:17:26 PM »

Such problems are pretty rare in new build developments.

Anything built from the mid to late 90's onwards is a simple deployment 99% of the time. It's not often they need to dig a blocked duct in shiny new estates.

If Telent (not Telnet) were in the street pulling in fibre to your nearest chamber then FTTP is definitely coming.

In rare cases it could be a Fibre On Demand order by someone in the street which would only give FTTP to whoever ordered it and those who share the same distribution point as the orderer. This is a bespoke FTTP build that costs 8k+ to order.

It's likely just normal FTTP though.
Timescales can be from a month to 6 months+ till it's live and available to order.
New builds are usually much quicker and with my new build it only took a couple afternoons with to pull the cables through and then connect all the kit in the chambers.
It was available to order within a couple months of the fibre being pulled in to the streets.
I was activated within a few weeks of ordering.

You need to keep in mind that there is a pandemic going on which is still having a major impact on OpenReach.
It's affecting both their own workforce with many engineers self isolating or shielding and it's affecting timescales for civilis works.

My own install was delayed by around 10 days due to COVID pressures.
I was thrilled with the effort put in by OpenReach despite the terrible communication i had from my ISP BT.

OpenReach are prioritising people who have lost service completely or installations for those with no current service.
Low speed complaints and the likes are being treated with a little less priority.
In saying all that the FTTP build and home installations are still going ahead as normal. Just be aware there may be slight delays. Thankfully most people appreciate the circumstances.

Thanks for info, yes they were done with my entire estate within a few days and it was Telent! not Telnet.

One query that isn't clear to me, does FTTP fibre go back to the same local cab as FTTC? or does it go directly back to the local exchange? I believe my local exchange (Carmarthen) is a head end exchange so it should go back to that rather than elsewhere.
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jimmyca69

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2020, 01:20:42 PM »

[Moderator note: The errant post has now been moved to bbnovice's thread.]

Apologies to "jimmyca69" for highjacking the post, I mistakenly posted here in error, intended to post in the current "bbnovice" thread,
here which is a more relevant topic with respect to my previous posting.

No problem, I do feel for bbnovice as yes there is a pandemic on but it seems that the biggest issue is the lack of or incorrect updates and missed agreed appointments. I dont think anyone would be annoyed if work wasn't done due to work pressures and that normal timescales are out of the window, but some comms to let users know wouldn't go amiss in this example.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 04:08:31 PM by burakkucat »
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tiffy

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2020, 01:41:09 PM »

@jimmyca69:
Many thanks for the understanding ref. my erroneous post.

Quote
One query that isn't clear to me, does FTTP fibre go back to the same local cab as FTTC? or does it go directly back to the local exchange? I believe my local exchange (Carmarthen) is a head end exchange so it should go back to that rather than elsewhere.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25271.msg424030.html#msg424030
This recent answer provided by j0hn and Black Sheep may answer your question.
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j0hn

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2020, 03:12:50 PM »

Thanks for info, yes they were done with my entire estate within a few days and it was Telent! not Telnet.

One query that isn't clear to me, does FTTP fibre go back to the same local cab as FTTC? or does it go directly back to the local exchange? I believe my local exchange (Carmarthen) is a head end exchange so it should go back to that rather than elsewhere.

It goes back to your nearest Head-End, although possibly in the same direction as the FTTC cabinet, which also connects back to the same Head-End.

Some FTTP will take the exact same route the local copper does.
Some FTTP will go a more direct route, going nowhere near the cabinet.
No idea what they've done on your particular rollout but the fibre for FTTP ends up in the same place as the fibre that feeds your current FTTC cab
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tiffy

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2020, 05:51:54 PM »

[Moderator note: The errant post has now been moved to bbnovice's thread.]

No problem, I do feel for bbnovice as yes there is a pandemic on but it seems that the biggest issue is the lack of or incorrect updates and missed agreed appointments. I dont think anyone would be annoyed if work wasn't done due to work pressures and that normal timescales are out of the window, but some comms to let users know wouldn't go amiss in this example.

Many thanks b*cat for "moderator rectification", apologies for the confusion.
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bbnovice

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2020, 07:00:26 PM »

I understand your frustration and the fault probably does lie 50/50 with BT and OR ??

But the fact still remains, that OR have had to prioritise their workstacks due to an ever-increasing load due to Covid restrictions.

It's not a get out clause, it's genuinely 'a thang'.

Before I go any further let me say my beef is not with the individual OR engneers who have attended on site. They have been helpful and done their stuff in a professional manner. My beef is with OR as an organistaion.

My issues are firstly that OR have given dates to BT which they have failed to meet several times. OR have provided these dates and not BT - by providing dates and then missing them (by a country mile) they have annoyed me and also I think BT. We all understand (and at least as far as I am concerned also accept) the pressures caused by COVID, but if OR understandably have problems prioritising their "workstacks" then they should factor this into their dates to make them more realistic. The second complaint is the communications failures to BT (and me) by OR.  As just one example OR have an area on their "permission to dig" form which deals with them contacting the client in advance to make sure they are available on site. This was completed by me and then ignored.



       
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jimmyca69

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2020, 08:32:35 PM »

It goes back to your nearest Head-End, although possibly in the same direction as the FTTC cabinet, which also connects back to the same Head-End.

Some FTTP will take the exact same route the local copper does.
Some FTTP will go a more direct route, going nowhere near the cabinet.
No idea what they've done on your particular rollout but the fibre for FTTP ends up in the same place as the fibre that feeds your current FTTC cab

Thanks for the info, I did some checking and it seems my local exchange is a head-end as there was a new (2019) estate which has FTTP only there and when searching on a post code there is comes up with my exchange. It was also encouraging to see that they can get the full 900/110 FTTP package so I would assume the exchange is fully capable and work will be on the fibres from my estate. Next to my local cab there is what I think is a aggregation node cab? it seems it is likely it either goes back via that or will take a separate route back to the exchange.
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j0hn

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Re: Openreach local work
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2020, 10:14:08 PM »

Aggregation nodes aren't visible. They are kept in underground chambers.
Aggregation nodes aren't put in place for an FTTP rollout. They are already there and were put in place for the FTTC rollout and already provided the fibre for these cabinets.
The only real exception to this is very rural areas with no FTTC or areas that have grown considerably since the FTTC rollout and an additional Agg Node is required. They are never put in cabinets though.

Any cabinet next to your local cabinet will be a fibre cabinet, or won't be an OpenReach cabinet at all.
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