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[jimmyca69]

Hello,

Hoping someone can assist here, I recently purchased a new TP-Link VR2800 to try instead of my Sky Broadband Hub (SR203). I was looking to improve Wi-Fi and see if the additional features via the VR2800 would suit me better on my VDSL2 line.

However since having the router setup (which was easy to do with the built in Sky/MER setup), and despite the router being powered on and connected for a week, I am seeing a slow decline in downstream connections with the router disconnecting 5 out of the 7 nights between 1-2am which I assume is DLM.

Initially the stats were 43999/19999 which was same as Sky router (was stuck on a 44/20 profile), but overnight it disconnects and stats reduce, first was down to 39999/19999 and then Thursday down to 34999/19999. It disconnected Fri night and again last night according to logs but remained at the 35/20 speeds.

Logs on the TP-Link show the following for when the disconnect takes place - "DSL Link Down, remote disconnect detected" before then showing it reconnect at the lower speed.
 
Router stats on Friday 2nd Oct:
Line Status:  Connected
DSL Up Time:  0 days 9 hours 18 minutes
DSL Modulation Type:  VDSL2
Annex Type:  Annex A/L

Upstream - Downstream
Current Rate (kbps) 19999 - 34999
Max Rate (kbps) 22933 - 63677
SNR Margin (dB) 7.6 - 14.4
Line Attenuation (dB) 23.7 - 12.2
Errors (pkts) 52 - 4433

Router Stats as of today (6th Oct)
Line Status: Connected
DSL Up Time: 0 days 19 hours 47 minutes
DSL Modulation Type: VDSL2
Annex Type: Annex A/L

Upstream   Downstream
Current Rate (kbps)   19999   34999
Max Rate (kbps)   23012   57801
SNR Margin (dB)   7.5   13.1
Line Attenuation (dB)   23.6   12.2
Errors (pkts)   194   0

Not sure if anyone can help or suggest anything with the TP-Link router? The errors I am not sure if normal for 9hrs, I assume I am now on a 35/20 type profile and so one option might be to plug the sky router back in and contact them as my min guaranteed speed is 37mb (but 42mb-62mb listed as achievable). But wanted to check there wasn't something in the settings i could look at? (e.g. Bit Swap, SRA etc).

TP-Link support suggest to a) watch the LED lights  and b) to put the latest stable firmware as the one on it - despite being downloaded from their website as the latest - is only a beta apparently so they suggest the previous firmware. I have that firmware on it now and will see how it goes.

Thanks

[j0hn]

Looks like your line isn't liking the TP-Link.

There's ways to get far more detailed stats from some TP-Link models but I've never owned 1 so couldn't help with that.

Perhaps search the forum and see if your model is 1 that can give better stats or maybe someone will come along and advise.
ejs is the man in know with TP-links.

My advise is go back to the Sky router and get a DLM reset.
Don't use the TP-Link until you can see more detailed stats to work out why the DLM is being so harsh.
Alternatively just return the TP-Link to wherever you purchased it.

[siofjofj]

If you want to try and find out what the problem is, as j0hn said, obtaining some additional statistics from your router would be useful. It looks like others have had success unlocking the VR2800. If you want to give this a go, try following these instructions https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14377.msg357441.html#msg357441, either as-is or by using the program here https://github.com/sta-c0000/tpconf_bin_xml to do the encryption and decryption.

If you want to try this, I'd recommend doing it with the router disconnected from the phone line. That way, the reboots won't upset the DLM further.

[tubaman]

I would certainly echo what j0hn has said. This very much highlights the difficulty of choosing a good modem/router, as here even two Broadcom based modems (pretty sure the SR203 is?) are exhibiting very different behaviours.
Saying that I does sound like your line was banded even before you tried the TP-Link hardware (stuck at 43999 sync), so DLM has seen issues before. Unfortunately without any detailed stats it's going to be hard to identify what is going on here.
 

[siofjofj]

Saying that I does sound like your line was banded even before you tried the TP-Link hardware (stuck at 43999 sync), so DLM has seen issues before.

Well spotted!

jimmyca69: Is there any noise on the line when doing a quiet line test (on Sky call 02087599036 and pick option 2). Do you have any extension sockets / have you tried the test socket with the Sky router (will take some time for the DLM to relent though)?

As I understand it the "Errors (pkts)" counter in the TP-Link GUI refers to the number of CRCs. Getting 4433 in 9 hours seems very high to me so something looks wrong.

[meritez]

I see on the TP-Link website that the latest firmware has enhanced the performance?

https://www.tp-link.com/uk/support/download/archer-vr2800/#Firmware

Code: [Select]

Published Date: 2020-06-28 Language: English File Size: 23.02 MB
This firmware has enhanced the performance and it's recommended to upgrade to this firmware for better experience.


What firmware version are you on?

[jimmyca69]

Thanks all for your input, will try and answer the queries where possible.

Firmware - was initially on the latest one (June 2020) but TP-Link support suggested the one before (March 2020) as it is the "stable" one. God knows why they put the latest one on website if not deemed "stable". So I have put the March one on the router last night.

Stats are below, showing reset last night for new firmware:

Line Status: Connected
DSL Up Time: 0 days 13 hours 35 minutes
DSL Modulation Type:  VDSL2
Annex Type: Annex A/L

Upstream   Downstream
Current Rate (kbps)   19999   34999
Max Rate (kbps)   22945   58860
SNR Margin (dB)   7.6   14.1
Line Attenuation (dB)   23.7   12.2
Errors (pkts)   15   0

Phone/Socket - My master socket is an Openreach filtered face plate so (MK4), thanks for the useful number @siofjofj I hadn't see that before. Did a quiet line test and all was ok.

Banding - Yes my line has been stuck on a 44/20 profile for about 3-4 months now, it was for a while before that on a 49/20. Sky say it should be between 42-65mb speeds with my min guarantee being 37. I am sure it is capable of more and wanted Sky to do a DLM reset but it was impossible to speak to anyone that could before so I just dealt with it hoping FTTP would arrive soon. Ironically now on the 35/20 banding I can reference it is below min speeds to instigate an engineer or DLM reset remotely if they can?

I have looked at the threads below and have managed (i think) to successfully edit the config.bin file and then encrypt it ready to put on the router. If that works then i'll need to setup DSLStats to monitor the line I assume?

Edit: just to add I can confirm I am connected to a Huawei cab.

Thanks again

[siofjofj]

Interesting. Things look considerably better now, though this could just be a coincidence if the fault is intermittent.

I inspected the two firmwares, and found that the two router firmwares do have different xDSL firmware blobs in them, with the 200227 version having A2pvbH042j2 and the 200710 version having A2pvbH042w (these imply the router has the BCM63138 chipset for DSL purposes). This could possibly make a difference (see the many discussions on this forum regarding the different firmware versions for the BCM63168).

Yes, once the configuration is uploaded you should be able to set up DSLstats. The VMG8924 preset sets most stuff up correctly, you just need to change the telnet port to whatever you set it to in the config (1023 in the example given in the first set of instructions I linked to). If you can collect data for 24 hours, then upload the results here we might be able to provide some more insight.

[jimmyca69]

Interesting. Things look considerably better now, though this could just be a coincidence if the fault is intermittent.

I inspected the two firmwares, and found that the two router firmwares do have different xDSL firmware blobs in them, with the 200227 version having A2pvbH042j2 and the 200710 version having A2pvbH042w (these imply the router has the BCM63138 chipset for DSL purposes). This could possibly make a difference (see the many discussions on this forum regarding the different firmware versions for the BCM63168).

Yes, once the configuration is uploaded you should be able to set up DSLstats. The VMG8924 preset sets most stuff up correctly, you just need to change the telnet port to whatever you set it to in the config (1023 in the example given in the first set of instructions I linked to). If you can collect data for 24 hours, then upload the results here we might be able to provide some more insight.

Many thanks for this.

I have tried, and so far unsuccessfully to get the DSLstats setup, from the other thread instructions the edited bin won't load into router as says error 41 wrong file. So need to look at the python solution as well before giving up.

In the meantime the stats seem to be ok and there has been no disconnect last 2 nights following the firmware update but will keep an eye on it.

Line Status: Connected
DSL Up Time: 1 days 12 hours 41 minutes
DSL Modulation Type: VDSL2
Annex Type: Annex A/L

Upstream   Downstream
Current Rate (kbps)   19999   34999
Max Rate (kbps)   23008   58875
SNR Margin (dB)   7.5   14.1
Line Attenuation (dB)   23.7   12.2
Errors (pkts)   44   0

I am however contemplating returning the router, in addition to the above issues, I have found the TP-Link support and firmware approach terrible. I have also seen some issues that I am not sure are router or settings issue - for example when in living watching Netflix (TV connected to 5G wireless and full strength), if I am on my phone and look to download updates or do a speed test, Netflix buffers and video stops at 25% reloading before error. Seems the phone is hogging all the bandwidth completely. I had previously setup QoS with the phone and two other devices being high priority (65%) with the TV and others in middle (30%) and I thought that would be enough to avoid Netflix to stop loading? Bascially losing faith in the whole router now.

[meritez]

I am however contemplating returning the router, in addition to the above issues, I have found the TP-Link support and firmware approach terrible. I have also seen some issues that I am not sure are router or settings issue - for example when in living watching Netflix (TV connected to 5G wireless and full strength), if I am on my phone and look to download updates or do a speed test, Netflix buffers and video stops at 25% reloading before error. Seems the phone is hogging all the bandwidth completely. I had previously setup QoS with the phone and two other devices being high priority (65%) with the TV and others in middle (30%) and I thought that would be enough to avoid Netflix to stop loading? Basically losing faith in the whole router now.

The above is one of the reasons a lot of users on here have separate modems and routers.

[siofjofj]

I have tried, and so far unsuccessfully to get the DSLstats setup, from the other thread instructions the edited bin won't load into router as says error 41 wrong file. So need to look at the python solution as well before giving up.

I believe this occurs due to the file size being too big, which happens as the StatPOSTer program doesn't apply compression to the configuration file (you'll notice the file you downloaded from the router is much smaller). This may work if you start from a minimal (i.e. factory reset) configuration as this may give a smaller file size. The python utility does not have this problem.

In the meantime the stats seem to be ok and there has been no disconnect last 2 nights following the firmware update but will keep an eye on it.

Agreed, all looks well now. This seems to be another case where some xDSL firmwares are extremely detrimental for certain connections. Hopefully the DLM will now relent over time.

I have found the TP-Link support and firmware approach terrible.

It's not great, no. My TP-Link VR600v1 has never had a firmware update in the time I have owned it, but thankfully I do find its performance adequate. Also the list of changes for the latest firmware for your VR2800 is laughably vague "This firmware has enhanced the performance and it's recommended to upgrade to this firmware for better experience."

As meritez alluded to, with an all in one device you do end up having to compromise, since the best modem may not be the best router, and the best router may not be the best wireless access point etc. There is also the compromise to be made that the best location for the modem (next to the master socket) is seldom the best location for a wireless access point (high and central). I personally get on pretty well with my all-in-one VR600, but obviously everyone's requirements are different.

[jimmyca69]

Thanks again,

I need to look into the Python utility and how to set it up, I downloaded Python 3.9 and can get to running the script to decode the bin but get python errors. Need a hand holding guide for a non-python Windows user.

Is there a 'recommended' setup in relation to having the best VDSL2 modem and best wireless router? I dont mind having separate devices and I understand each line can be different but based on being connected to a Huawei cab and being around 1km from exchange I would be looking for feedback for the best approach before I go beyond the 14 day return period for the VR2800 which is on the 13th. Work are covering payment for this so have a decent budget to play with.

BCM63168 & BCM63138 seem to be the recommended chipsets for the modem side, are they a safe bet when looking? Another thing I do need to consider is the modem would need to supports Sky's authentication process (MER/DHCP Option 61).

Given the previous discussions any solution ideally would also be able to use likes of DSLstats etc to monitor connection and provide info.

[siofjofj]

I need to look into the Python utility and how to set it up, I downloaded Python 3.9 and can get to running the script to decode the bin but get python errors. Need a hand holding guide for a non-python Windows user.

Is python added to your path (i.e. can you run 'python' or 'py' from a command prompt opened anywhere)? If so, the next thing to do is install the pycrypto module by running 'pip install pycrypto' from an elevated command prompt (right click command prompt in the start menu and choose run as administrator). You should then be able to run the python program using 'py tpconf_bin_xml.py -n conf.bin conf.xml' to decrypt your existing configuration, then 'py tpconf_bin_xml.py conf.xml conf_mod.bin' to encrypt the modified one.

Is there a 'recommended' setup in relation to having the best VDSL2 modem and best wireless router? I dont mind having separate devices

The absolute best arrangement would be a separate modem, separate router and at least one separate access point, all located in the most appropriate locations. Whether or not you require this, are happy with the expense and clutter and are able to run ethernet cabling to the relevant locations (1 or 2 cables between the modem and the router, 1 cable from each access point to the router) really depends on the layout of your house and your own opinion.

... connected to a Huawei cab and being around 1km from exchange ...

The distance from the exchange is not relevant for VDSL, it is the distance to the cabinet. It looks like you should be able to get around 60Mb/s on a fault free line if the DLM relents, so perhaps you are around 700m from the cabinet? What does https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL predict?

BCM63168 & BCM63138 seem to be the recommended chipsets for the modem side, are they a safe bet when looking?

It's fair to say that the Zyxel VMG1312-B10A, VMG8324-B10A and VMG8924-B10A modem/routers, configured in bridge (modem only) mode, are a popular choice on this forum and are regarded by several people as the fastest syncing and most stable. These all have the BCM63168 chipset which, while older than the BCM63138, seem to give better results, and all three have an additional noise filter on the input which I have never seen in any other modem. All three are discontinued, however can be obtained from ebay for low prices if you are patient enough. All work out of the box with DSLstats, but can also be flashed with a custom firmware, developed by johnson on this forum, which has a built in graphing stats server.

Another thing I do need to consider is the modem would need to supports Sky's authentication process (MER/DHCP Option 61).

If you wish to go with a separate modem and router solution, it is the router that does the authentication and needs to support DHCP Option 61, not the modem.

As for your options, it is worth remembering that your VR2800 does have a reasonable modem chipset and (by most accounts) makes a good wireless access point. I imagine, like my VR600, it can be set to router only mode for use with an external modem, or could be configured as an access point only. It is therefore not completely useless if you don't like one aspect of it and end up not being able to send it back. If you definitely want to get rid of it, here are two other ideas I would consider.

• Zyxel XMG3927-B50A as a combined modem/router/access point. This has the BCM63138 chipset, works with DSLstats and AC2400 wifi (also G.Fast support, not relevant in this case). Can be had for around £160, similar to your TP-Link. I think this supports entering any Option 61 string, but not 100% sure.
• One of the Zyxel modems listed above in bridge mode, combined with an Asus router compatible with the Asuswrt-Merlin firmware (which supports Option 61). Perhaps the RT-AX58U?

Note that I use a combined modem/router/access point and have fairly modest requirements (I only have ADSL), so I'm not the most experienced in specifying/setting-up separate systems.

[jimmyca69]

[Moderator edited to remove the unnecessary verbatim quote of the preceding post.]

Thanks again for a really helpful reply, much appreciated 

I didnt install the pycrypto module so will try that later today, hopefully that might be the issue.

I think with my house a separate modem and wireless router should suffice. Like you say the VR2800 on paper should be good with wireless but in addition to sync issues I have seen some Wi-Fi quirks but if i can iron them out then in thoery i could use this and a dedicated modem.

BT Wholesale comes back with the below:
Featured Products   Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)   Upstream Line Rate (Mbps)
                                        High   Low   High   Low    Downstream Handback Threshold   
VDSL Range A (Clean)    69.3   49   18.6   12.2    43.3
VDSL Range B (Impacted)    67.1   43.6   18.3   10.9    35   

As the crow flies it is around 300m to the cab, following road path more likely 450-500m.

Have seen the VMG8924-B10A on eBay for around £20 new so i'll grab one of those anyway as can test that in situ. I am leaning to using the VR2800 as a wireless router only coupled to it so can test hopefully.

On the weekend, as the line seems stable with firmware etc i will put the sky router back in and start the process for a the DLM reset or engineer visit before then going with new setup.

[siofjofj]

I think with my house a separate modem and wireless router should suffice. Like you say the VR2800 on paper should be good with wireless but in addition to sync issues I have seen some Wi-Fi quirks but if i can iron them out then in thoery i could use this and a dedicated modem.

That sounds like a reasonable compromise. One thing I would check though, before deciding to using the VR2800 as a router only, is if it can be configured to pass the DHCP Option 61 parameter in router only mode. On my VR600 which is supposedly compatible with Sky, there is no field in the main GUI for an option 61 string. Instead, it can only be entered during the "initial setup" wizard which also (presumably) sets the device up in modem/router mode.

Have seen the VMG8924-B10A on eBay for around £20 new so i'll grab one of those anyway as can test that in situ. I am leaning to using the VR2800 as a wireless router only coupled to it so can test hopefully.

That sounds like a good price for a new one. There is tons of information on this forum about how to remove any ISP specific customisation if it turns out the one you have ordered has this (clearing ROM-D is the name of the process that needs to be done). There are also johnson's custom firmwares if you want to play with them. In my opinion they make fairly decent routers too, though wifi isn't great (AC1300?), so another option for you could be the VMG8924 as a modem/router and the VR2800 as an access point. Note the VMG8924 does not work with Sky VDSL out of the box, but I have created a simple firmware patch for them which (I hope) should work (see https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25176.0.html).

As the crow flies it is around 300m to the cab, following road path more likely 450-500m.

Sorry yes, that seems like a more reasonable distance for the predicted speeds. My VDSL knowledge isn't great as I've never had it.

On the weekend, as the line seems stable with firmware etc i will put the sky router back in and start the process for a the DLM reset or engineer visit before then going with new setup.

Someone more familiar with Openreach's policies may be able to give better/more up to date information than me, but my impression was that Openreach engineers will only reset the DLM upon fixing a fault. If that fault was a bad router, they would then charge for the visit. There may be some new process now for ISPs to request DLM resets in some circumstances, not sure. If not, you may just need to wait it out (unless there actually is some problem on the line, which there could be given your connection seemed to be banded before trying the new router).