Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 21

Author Topic: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review  (Read 40935 times)

roseway

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 41669
  • Penguins CAN fly
    • DSLstats
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2020, 03:27:34 PM »

There seems to be some confusion about what is meant by Annex A/B. 'Annex' in this context is a Euro word meaning 'Appendix'. It refers to an appendix to an official document. There are two relevant documents being mixed up here, one describing the hardware for a DSL service and one describing the band plan configuration. A modem described as Annex A means that its hardware supports xDSL over POTS (the UK system) and Annex B means that its hardware supports xDSL over ISDN (the German system) Some modems may support both, but most don't. An Annex B modem is no use in the UK.
Logged
  Eric

hushcoden

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 416
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2020, 04:53:42 PM »

Agreed, I'm stll pretty confused about it... I did read somewhere that Openreach uses an Annex B bandplan from the VDSL2 spec (G.993.2) over Annex A physical infrastructure, so for the UK, the modem hardware/firmware needs to be Annex A, but it will sync using Annex B
From my stats, see 'Mode':
Code: [Select]
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 28192 Kbps, Downstream rate = 86998 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 72929 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime

As for G.fast, according to smallal it shouldn't matter...
Logged

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3894
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2020, 10:55:26 PM »

As I said, Annex A/B refers to the VDSL service only.

Annex A B does absolutely not apply to VDSL only.

The physical infrastructure remains Annex A or B whether you run ADSL, VDSL or G.Fast.

Quote
If you are buying a Vigor 166 to use on G.Fast then there shouldn't be a problem.
I looked at this before buying a ZyXel XMG3927 for UK G.Fast use from Germany.

G.Fast may run over either, or those modem manufacturers may have made their devices to run on either.

It's still Annex A and B infrastructure. Just with a modem that handles both.
Draytek include an Annex A and Annex B cable in the box.

Agreed, I'm stll pretty confused about it... I did read somewhere that Openreach uses an Annex B bandplan from the VDSL2 spec (G.993.2) over Annex A physical infrastructure, so for the UK, the modem hardware/firmware needs to be Annex A

Correct.

Quote
but it will sync using Annex B
From my stats, see 'Mode':

Incorrect, sort of.
That Annex B reported is the bandplan.
It's Annex A, with an Annex B bandplan.
Some modems report 1 Annex, while other modems report the other Annex, confusing things further.

I've tried 2 Annex B (infrastructure Annex) modems on OpenReach VDSL2 and neither synced.

I've read other posts that have also failed to get the Vigor 165 syncing in the UK

There are also sites selling the Draytek that specifically label it as a Vigor 165-A, advising it won't work with ISDN

Suitable for VDSL2 and ADSL2 / 2 +

The integrated modem of the Draytek Vigor 165 is suitable for both VDSL2 and ADSL2 connections. This model supports analog ADSL2 / 2 + connections. If you are looking for a similar model supports ADSL connections via ISDN, please refer to the Draytek Vigor 122 annex B .

The 1st Google result for "Vigor 165 OpenReach" has a thread with the following

Will Vigor 165 Annex B work in UK?? (FTTC VDSL connection)

Containing the posts...

Quote
I have just tried a Vigor 165 bought in Germany.
The 165's firmware supports Annex A and B, still I was not able to get a sync on my line.
Will have to see, whether I can make some adjustment to the settings to get it to make a sync

and

Quote
I have acquired a Draytek Vigor 165 (Annex A, not B) imported from the Netherlands, working with PlusNet in the UK.

I can happily confirm this seems to work A-OK.

If you're in the UK and want one of the 165's - make sure it is indeed Annex A.

I'm still not sure if there are 2 models of the 165 (an A and B variant) or if there's only 1 model.

As for the Vigor 166... It might well sync on G.Fast and not VDSL2.
It might sync on both.
The Vigor 165 would not sync on OpenReach VDSL2 though and that also appears to have a single EU model, but that's contradicted by retailers who specify Annex A or B.
Logged
Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

justlostinthejargon......

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2020, 11:19:36 AM »

I dunno.....

New poster asks a simple question and starts a riot   ;) ;) :D >:D  ......sorry folks.

Now you understand why I had to ask the question, this is about as clear as pea soup, simplistically, without wishing to be anal, has anyone on the thread actually plugged a Vigor 166 into OR infrastructure and got it to work fully and properly without limitations (please no theoretical answers, actual first hand experience answers)?  If you did was the one you used an Annex A, Annex B or Annex neutral?  Lastly what settings are you using?

On the flip side happy crimble everyone and on a slightly more serious note remember, on January 1st Hindsight really will be 2020 thank frack.

Logged

smallal

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2020, 11:57:12 AM »

The 1st post (the review) in this thread is for the version sold in Germany.
The review seems to be a UK based one with the Vigor 166 working.
Why don't you PM the author & ask to confirm if you're in doubt, just to be sure.
Sourcing a GEN1 may be a bit tricky as they're getting rare, amazon.de were doing them for 120 but they ran out last month.
For some reason most German online traders won't supply to the UK.
As for Annex A or B, I've only seen 1 version for sale so far, I read this in a review which may explain why:
The Vigor166 works with VDSL / Supervectoring / G connections.Fast Vigor166 generation 1 supports G.Fast with 106 MHz and is supported in generation 2 in Q4 / 2020 also 212 MHz.
Please also note that by eliminating ADSL support for the Vigor166, there are no longer separate Annex A and Annex-B variants, as these are only for ADSL spectra.
Logged

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3894
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2020, 12:24:23 PM »

Please also note that by eliminating ADSL support for the Vigor166, there are no longer separate Annex A and Annex-B variants, as these are only for ADSL spectra.

Where do people come to with that nonsense?

You just said in a previous post Annex A & B was VDSL only.
Now it's ADSL only

The Vigor166 has NOT, absolutely NOT, dropped ADSL support.
It's listed on their product page.

https://www.draytek.com/products/vigor166/#specs

Quote
ADSL Standards   ANSI T1.413, ITU-T G.992.1(G.dmt), G.992.2 (G.lite)
ADSL2 Standards   ITU-T G.992.3
ADSL2+ Standards   ITU-T G.992.5

The Annex remains regardless of ADSL, VDSL or G.Fast.
Draytek have simply made a model that does both.

They claim to have done the same with the 165, but I and others can't get it to sync in the UK on VDSL2.

The only report of the 165 syncing on VDSL2 is a 165-A (AnnexA) model, which the retailers specifically warns doesn't work on ISDN (AnnexB).

Draytek list a single variant, with modem code that is labelled both Annex A&B

Draytek are clear as mud on this.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 12:33:21 PM by j0hn »
Logged
Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3894
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2020, 12:52:49 PM »

The vigor 166 support page, at the very top says VDSL & G.FAST - NO ADSL!
The ref further down to ADSL is out of date, just like the ref to 212Mhz which is GEN 2 only.

What page are you reading? I can't see anywhere that says NO ADSL.

https://www.draytek.com/products/vigor166/

It makes no less than 9 statements claiming ADSL operability.

Quote
Vigor166 is a G.fast modem/router, delivering fiber-like DSL speed up to 1.3 Gbps. The built-in DSL modem is backward compatible with VDSL2 profile 35b supervectoring and ADSL2+. With 1 RJ-11 port and 2 GbE LAN ports, Vigor166 is also configurable to be a small yet powerful router, offering SPI firewall and content filtering by URL keywords and web features.
Quote
11x RJ-11 for G.fast/VDSL2 35b/ADSL2

There are 6 mentions of ADSL on the specs page.

I have never, ever, seen a modem do VDSL that isn't backwards compatible with ADSL.

Edit: post I've replied to has been deleted?
Logged
Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

smallal

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2020, 02:02:03 PM »

VIGOR 166 official UK Model is on it's way!
Draytek (UK Division) has confirmed that the official UK (Openreach/BT certified) model is imminent.
Designated the V166-K (EAN 4712909128230) they've posted details here:
https://draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-166
It seems to have UK specific firmware for easier setup.
Quote: The Vigor 166 modem is designed exclusively for use in the UK, with the required network settings pre-set, such as the Openreach VLAN tag.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 02:19:53 PM by smallal »
Logged

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3894
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2020, 03:12:18 PM »

Excellent.
No doubt on that syncing then.

Quote
WAN Features
Pre-Configured with OpenReach network VLAN tag 101
WAN1 Service & Customer (double-tag) VLAN support
Maximum MTU 1508
G.fast & DSL Compatibility
BT Infinity Option 1 & Option 2 Compatible
Compliant with Openreach SIN 527 & SIN 498
Auto Detection of G.fast and VDSL line modes
Support for G.INP & Vectoring
G.fast Standards:
ITU-T G.9700, G.9701 G.fast
Profile: 106MHz
Logged
Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

smallal

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2020, 03:39:31 PM »

MTU=1508 will be welcome
The EU version has a max=1500 (so no baby jumbo frames as defined by the Openreach SINs)
I wonder if the UK firmware (once released) can be loaded into an existing EU model?
Logged

justlostinthejargon......

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2020, 09:54:13 PM »

I notice the UK one only supports the 106Mhz profile, so if OR do install 212Mhz cards going forward you may not be able to benefit (I realise that the benefit will apply only to people less then 150m from their street cabinet).

Logged

jaydub

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2020, 11:15:07 PM »

(I realise that the benefit will apply only to people less than 150m from their street cabinet).

... and can get Gfast.  We qualify on the less than 150m, but have no Gfast on our ECI cabinet.
Logged

justlostinthejargon......

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2020, 09:10:29 AM »

... and can get Gfast.  We qualify on the less than 150m, but have no Gfast on our ECI cabinet.

So that might mean if/when your cab is enabled you might get a 212Mhz card installed in it that supports the higher speeds, so there could be an upside to your delay.
Logged

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3894
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2020, 10:10:35 AM »

So that might mean if/when your cab is enabled you might get a 212Mhz card installed in it that supports the higher speeds, so there could be an upside to your delay.

If/when? What delay?
The G.Fast rollout is dead.

If you don't have access to it now in the uk it is very very unlikely you ever will get it.

I'm not sure anyone actually wants it rolled out to them.

They are even overbuilding existing G.Fast with FTTP, meaning the numbers with access to G.Fast now will start shrinking.

I personally can't see OpenReach upgrading all their line cards to 212Mhz cards.
Some of the bigger ISP's only sell 160/30 already and above 212Mhz would benefit a tiny proportion of G.Fast users, of who there are few.
Take up rates have been disastrous.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 10:15:30 AM by j0hn »
Logged
Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

smallal

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: Draytek Vigor 166 G.fast Modem / Router Review
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2020, 11:51:32 AM »

The question is would the line cards need an upgrade or are they already 212Mhz capable?
As for FTTP, the project has fallen way behind, just yesterday a news report said that the new lower 2025 Govt. coverage target probably wouldn't be met.
Speaking to a local Openreach engineer he told me that there were no plans for local domestic FTTP installs in my area for at least 2 years (except for new build estates).
Therefore I'm stuck with G.Fast for quite some time to come. (especially as Virgin have reneged on their promise to cable my street)
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 21