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[smallal]

Update: As of 22/10/2020 most stockists in the EU have run out of stock, the few still with stock have hiked the price by 30-50 euro.
Unusually dealers aren't quoting an expected restock date which makes me think Draytek themselves have none left to sell.
Amazon were 'out of stock' but have today changed the status to 'Not available at the moment. We don't know if or when this item will be back in stock'.
So the big question is will the next shipment be more of the GEN1 version or will the GEN2 model make an appearance?

[Robbie]

Not sure it matters here in the UK, aside from a potential price rise for including (unused) Gen 2 chipsets.

I just hope that G.fast in my area is gone within the next 2 years.  Until then I am marking time until FTTP arrives.

[smallal]

Just because Openreach doesn't offer 212Mhz G.Fast at the moment doesn't mean to say they won't in the future.
A lot would depend on whether the current equipment supports it, there's very little info on what's actually been installed.
They keep changing direction when it comes to their broadband plans, currently G.Fast can serve 2.8m homes.
However new G.fast deployments are currently on hold until a review in March next year.
They're currently way behind in their FTTP rollout, & keep extending the target date for the project's completion.
In fact earlier this year they admitted that the rollout was so far behind that more homes could still get G.fast vs FTTP.

[re0]

It's starting to veer a bit off topic, but utilising 212 MHz in OR's current G.fast deployment (via cabinets) is going to provide very little benefit since line lengths would probably need to be approx. 150m or less under real world conditions for it to make a difference.

Some old data from TBB says 20% of premises are 150m or shoter, and those people could already exceed 330 Mbps without 212 MHz. I am ~190m at I have seen attainables around 400 Mbps for the downstream. Those closer to 100m probably could see over 500 Mbps on 106 MHz.

It probably doesn't make sense to deploy 212 MHz unless you're doing it from nodes much closer to the property, where the distance is ≤100m (which is about 11% when it comes to cabinets overall, but will vary area to area) where 1 Gbps is possible downstream. Even at my distance, I do not think my line is capable of frequencies above ~90 MHz so it doesn't bother me.

The key to increasing speeds and distance for all is finding a way to reduce the starting frequency for G.fast, but without interrupting VDSL signals. With low takeup, maybe it is just best it is treated as a stopgap and not focus on upgrading existing cabinet-based deployments at least. With the cabinet-based approach, it looks like 1/6 of those who could get G.fast would see a good benefit from 212 MHz, with the rest being marginal or no benefit at all - and how many customers would actually take up new packages?

[j0hn]

I can't see them introducing the faster 212MHz on a technology with an artificial cap in place already.

If they want to boost G.Fast speeds for those closest to their cabinet (the only people 212MHz would benefit anyway) then they simply need to remove the 330Mb cap.

They are already overbuilding G.Fast with FTTP in many areas.
The rollout is dead.
I predict 212MHz will never come to PCP deployed G.Fast in the UK.

Perhaps if they change the deployment method and start using G.Fast in MDU's that can't get FTTP due to wayleave issues then higher frequencies would make more sense.

Higher frequencies being available doesn't mean they will be used and the VDSL2 rollout is the perfect example of that.
VDSL2 profile 30a and 35b have been around for many years.
35b looked particularly appealing being wholly compatible with profile 17a.
I've been reading posts asking when profile 30a was coming pretty much since the day they upgraded to 17a.

[re0]

If they want to boost G.Fast speeds for those closest to their cabinet (the only people 212MHz would benefit anyway) then they simply need to remove the 330Mb cap.

^ Absolutely this. People with line lengths up to around 200m should notice a small difference at least. I wouldn't mind 400 Mbps if they got rid of that cap.

[smallal]

I had an email today from Draytek (in Germany) to say that the Vigor 166 GEN2 (due Q4 2020) has been delayed slightly.
The first batch should now arrive in Germany around Jan 15th & will cost around €140
No word regarding a UK launch though.

[justlostinthejargon......]

Coming late to this party......but want to check first before pulling the trigger.

I had G.Fast installed yesterday from Shell using TalkTalk backhaul/infrastructure.

I currently have an MT992 with Technicolor Router, speeds are OK so far but I'm going to find my local cabinet and get an idea what the rough distance is.

I'd read that the German Vigor 166s were configured for Annex B but the UK uses Annex A, from a quick bit of research this doesn't matter as above circa 18Mhz up to 106Mhz they're both the 'same' standard, is this correct or have I (in all likelyhood) misunderstood?

So, in a nutshell if I could find a MK I Vigor 166 (I know the MK II is due mid/end next month....but based on this and other threads the UK only seem to be supporting up to 106Mhz range on the cabinet cards anyway?) what would be a sensible price to pay for it?

Great threads here guys, I think this is going to be my goto place for all info re G.Fast.

[burakkucat]

Welcome to the Kitz forum. 

I'd read that the German Vigor 166s were configured for Annex B but the UK uses Annex A, . . .

In the UK, the basic hardware annex is for xDSL over POTS. That is Annex A.

In Germany, the basic hardware annex is for xDSL over ISDN. That is Annex B.

It's important not to confuse the above, basic, hardware annexes with those for software features.

[j0hn]

Openreach uses an Annex B bandplan from VDSL2 ITU-T G.993.2 over Annex A physical infrastructure (POTS).

Germany use Annex B (ISDN).

I don't believe an Annex B modem will sync in the UK.

Edit: the annex B models usually have an rj45 xdsl port and the UK Annex A version usually has an rj11 xdsl port.

[burakkucat]

I don't believe an Annex B modem will sync in the UK.

I, too, share that belief.

[justlostinthejargon......]

What made it confusing was that on the Amazon reviews some UK buyers said theirs did work, while others said theirs didn't.  Therefore based on the comments here I can only conclude inconsistency in what model individual users were provided.

So, I MUST buy an Annex A unit, given that is my supposition regarding the 106Mhz to 212hz status of cards in the street cabs likely correct (i.e. Existing cards won't support 212Mhz due to hardware limitation, new cards installed going forward by OR might)?   If this is correct I should work on the basis that G.Fast for me is a stop gap solution (be that 2 years or 5 years) until FTTP is rolled out to my area?

So, if I'm correct on the above assumptions and can find an Annex A MK I 166, what would be a fair price to pay?

Thanks for the pointers guys.

[smallal]

Annexe A&B only refers to the VDSL part, G.Fast doesn't have A&B.
As this router isn't a UK model it's quite likely that it won't work on G.Fast here in the UK 'out of the box' & will need a manual setup.
This may be what's been causing problems with people not being able to set it up properly.
Certainly the ZyXel XMG3927 suffers from this problem as the auto-setup wizard can't even detect the G.Fast signal in the UK, but a manual setup works fine

[j0hn]

Annexe A&B only refers to the VDSL part, G.Fast doesn't have A&B.

It may not have the A&B Annex (software) part (bandplan) but there is still the physical infrastructure Annex A or Annex B to consider.
Draytek even include Annex A and Annex B cables in their 160 range, so it still exists.

Many Annex B modems will not sync in the UK.
YMMV

I've tried both a German Asus DSL-AC87VG (Annex B) and a German Draytek Vigor 165.
I couldn't get either to sync on VDSL2 in the UK.

The Draytek 165 is supposed to be Annex A and B and even included...

• RJ-11 to RJ-11 Cable
  (Annex A)
• RJ-11 to RJ-45 Cable
  (Annex B)
• RJ-45 to RJ-45 Cable
  (Annex B)

It still wouldn't sync.

The fact Draytek now seem to make a single model with an rj45 xdsl port in the 160 range suggests it should work.
That's why i purchased it after my failed experiment with the Asus a number of years earlier.
No luck though.
I couldn't find any UK specific firmware for the 165 at the time.

[smallal]

As I said, Annex A/B refers to the VDSL service only.
If you are buying a Vigor 166 to use on G.Fast then there shouldn't be a problem.
I looked at this before buying a ZyXel XMG3927 for UK G.Fast use from Germany.