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Author Topic: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?  (Read 1377 times)

re0

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2020, 06:02:36 PM »

I have not seen any dedicated gaming isp's since the demise of BE, however I came across this isp recently https://www.leetline.co.uk maybe worth looking into :fingers:
Whatever issue is causing the DLM to make changes, switching ISP is not going to be the solution as the DLM is going still going to intervene. That's on the presumption you are suggesting it as a solution which wouldn't work because the latency is from the DLM's parameters, so please don't take my comment the wrong way.

As sad as it sounds (there's worse things in life to worry about), I'm still pretty dejected at this outcome. The A&A line in particular was provided exclusively so I could game (semi-professionally), so this further interleave is the worst thing. Short of moving house, what can I do?
If I am not mistaken, it looks like one line has a large amount of ES on the upstream and the other on both the downstream and upstream? It looks like your connections are deemed too unstable by the DLM for fastpath.

Do you have any historical data from before? For example, months following the time of install?

When scanning through, I didn't see any mention of an engineer coming out to test the line. I didn't see any mention of ISPs running remote tests, either. Have you asked your ISP(s) to run remote tests? If not, request those tests and see whether an engineer visit is advisable. Obviously take note of the applicable costs of a visit if there is a problem in your property (such as with the mastersocket, filters, etc.).

As for the solution, I don't know. If there is a fault then hopefully an engineer can resolve it. If you're really concerned about latency, you could look at a leased line (which can cost hundreds of per month... but I don't know how that works if you live in a flat), see if there are alternative suppliers for fibre, or look at FTTPoD or Openreach Community Fibre Partnerships (though the latter two are expensive and I have no idea how that works in Multi-Dwelling Units (MDUs) like flats).
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 06:11:20 PM by re0 »
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parkdale

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2020, 06:20:10 PM »

so please don't take my comment the wrong way.

None taken.. only if they were looking for more specialised isp
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foxtrot_yankee

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2020, 08:19:04 AM »

Do you have any historical data from before? For example, months following the time of install?

No, the two Zyxel's are recent purchases, so I've nothing from before. Plus, I only moved to BT on 20 September, and the A&A line was installed a week later.

When scanning through, I didn't see any mention of an engineer coming out to test the line. I didn't see any mention of ISPs running remote tests, either. Have you asked your ISP(s) to run remote tests? If not, request those tests and see whether an engineer visit is advisable. Obviously take note of the applicable costs of a visit if there is a problem in your property (such as with the mastersocket, filters, etc.).

I had engineers out shortly after the A&A line installation. Would have loved it to be a shiny new copper pair run into the flat, but they used an exisiting unused pair so I'm not sure of the pair quality. Anyway, they had to come out because I had no service whatsoever. They found it had been misjumpered at the PCP.

Around the same time, the BT line was dropping out, so a separate engineer visit for that happened, however, this guy was a PSTN engineer rather than broadband. He found a loose termination in the wiring closet but apart from that it was testing OK.

As for the solution, I don't know. If there is a fault then hopefully an engineer can resolve it. If you're really concerned about latency, you could look at a leased line (which can cost hundreds of per month... but I don't know how that works if you live in a flat), see if there are alternative suppliers for fibre, or look at FTTPoD or Openreach Community Fibre Partnerships (though the latter two are expensive and I have no idea how that works in Multi-Dwelling Units (MDUs) like flats).

Unfortunately I don't see any of those options working. I managed to get Virgin Media on board to cable our flats but when it came to signing the wayleave to allow them to, one neighbour (out of 50 flats) put a stop to the whole thing. I asked our building factor to ask them to reconsider, but they firmly denied. So that, to me, means it doesn't matter which provider I go to, I have a difficult neighbour who will block it. Virgin Media are in every street nearby (our flats were built after CableTel had cabled the area in the 90s) so I'm surprised our BT cabinet is busy.

My exchange was on the list for Openreach FTTP upgrade earlier this year but was pulled in April "due to unforseen operational obstacles" so that looks like it's years away.
CityFibre are close by, but they're not doing our area for FTTP yet.

I will be on VDSL for some time yet.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2020, 08:49:26 AM »


My exchange was on the list for Openreach FTTP upgrade earlier this year but was pulled in April "due to unforseen operational obstacles" so that looks like it's years away.
CityFibre are close by, but they're not doing our area for FTTP yet.

My exchange was delayed also which I found out was power needing a complete overhaul in the exchange.  It seems to now be back on after a years delay (assuming the altest Fibre First site update is accurate) which is a relief, as they initially said it would be a TWO year delay to start installation.

I'm a little confused why one person in a block of flats can prevent the wayleave, surely its 100% up to the building management?
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foxtrot_yankee

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2020, 08:57:38 AM »

I'm a little confused why one person in a block of flats can prevent the wayleave, surely its 100% up to the building management?

In Scotland, the building factors act on behalf of the homeowners. They would have signed the wayleave on our behalf had there been no objections. I agree, it's mad that one person can deny a service for everyone, but it seems to be the way. The thing with VM is, they would pre-wire the flats at no cost to anyone, and they wouldn't need into each individual flat unless that flat was taking the service, so I'm really not sure what their issue is. I can't even speak to them because data protection prevents the factor from telling me who it was.
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re0

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2020, 01:34:28 PM »

Bit of a bummer that one person objecting against something that probably wouldn't hinder them during the installation to the flats can stop something that could benefit everybody. On the surface it seems very selfish of them, and I do not know what legal measures you can take. :(

Really, I have only few suggestions:
  • Raise faults and see what the diagnostics say. If an engineer visit is advised then you could at least consider it.
  • You could switch your gaming line to ADSL2+ to a provider that allows control over the profiles.
  • You could limit your sync rate using xdslcmd via CLI to reduce errors and hopefully get the DLM to adjust the profile, which is described here.

If you consider 2, obviously you could lose a large chunk of your speed depending on your distance to the exchange - especially the upstream. Thankfully, games that are not hosted on your network or use P2P shouldn't require more upstream than ADSL2+ can provide (most lines sit around 0.9-1.3 Mbps upstream - if you are close the exchange you could consider Annex M for somewhere up to 2.5 Mbps if you're willing to pay more). You could use your other line for updates and installs, but this may be a bit of a hassle.

If you consider 3, messing with the DLM is not a good idea and even doing so is not guaranteed to get you fastpath back. Furthermore, it is reported that the values set by the user do not stick after a reboot or powering off the device.
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foxtrot_yankee

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2020, 10:56:33 PM »

I've gone for option 3 and a DLM reset.  I spoke to the support guys at A&A.  They did all they could but with it being FTTC, they have no control over the profiles as you said.  So instead they've asked Openreach to do a DLM reset. I've also capped my Zyxel to 24/8 in an attempt to stabilise it further.  Time to wait and monitor it for a few weeks.

I'm not so fussed about the BT line not being on fastpath. We use that for general use, downloading, streaming etc, so I'm not going to touch that line again.
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foxtrot_yankee

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2020, 11:12:02 AM »



DLM reset occurred just before 2am today. Back down to 8ms interleave delay, capped myself at 24/8, no CRCs on the downstream, FECs in the low hundreds per 15mins. I don't think I can make this line any more green than that.
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foxtrot_yankee

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2020, 09:59:14 AM »

Well, well, well. I cannot say I expected things to move this quickly...



Code: [Select]
DSLAM type / SW version: IFTN:0xd086 (208.134) / v0xd086
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pvfbH043q.d26u
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  0 hour 28 min 21 sec
Resyncs:                1 (since 26 Oct 2020 01:47:10)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  20.8 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 23984 7998
SNR margin (dB):        13.3 6.3
Power (dBm):            11.4 5.7
Interleave depth:        1 1
INP:                    0 0
G.INP:                  Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

RSCorr/RS (%):          N/A 0.0001
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        N/A 0.0000
ES/hour:                2.11 2335

Interleaving is OFF!

(Although not sure what the 13db SNRM means for me)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 10:22:58 AM by foxtrot_yankee »
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RealAleMadrid

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2020, 11:17:43 AM »

You have a high SNRM because you have capped your speed, so you have spare noise margin. If the cap was removed your sync speed would increase, what this would do to your error rates is hard to say.
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re0

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2020, 03:54:43 PM »

Code: [Select]
ES/hour:                2.11 2335Uhh? Could you post the full stats?
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foxtrot_yankee

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2020, 10:21:53 AM »

Code: [Select]
ES/hour:                2.11 2335Uhh? Could you post the full stats?

My full stats are here
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re0

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Re: Faulty? DLM? Or an engineer working?
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2020, 12:34:41 PM »

I wonder if the high amount of reported ES is a bug? Error rates for 15 minute intervals seem ok, but for any greater period of time the upstream seems hard hit. Not seeing such ES on the graph - do you have it limited to 20?

Seems your connection got knocked offline a little after 11:55 - SHINE? Might be worth taking a look at this.
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