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Author Topic: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue  (Read 4839 times)

Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2020, 08:55:17 PM »

At least you weren't cut off, with any luck they will avoid that little pitfall.
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Freedom2

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2020, 07:06:01 PM »

So, I've had an update from Sky and once again it's a merry-go-round with Openreach.

Due to an issue with some systems, Openreach had to close the order down so have asked Sky to resubmit the order tonight and then they will shortly afterwards start the planning work for resolving the issue under the new request.

According to Openreach, they cannot start doing the planning work until the new order is in, which just stinks of playing for time. Does anyone else have any experience with this kind of thing?
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Freedom2

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2020, 07:26:35 PM »

Had another round of this madness today, having looped in Openreach complaints.

The first email from High Level Complaints said that Sky need to place an order despite the fact I mentioned in the original email that we've done that several times with no result. The email also did not answer any of the points or questions I made in my email about focusing on solutions rather than semantics. They asked for permission to contact Sky which I gave whilst also stating that we've been through the order -> fail -> order -> fail cycle before and it has not achieved anything.

They have since come back with me and advised that Sky have been told to place another order and again avoided commenting on the actual issues at hand and all the things that I have described on here and in previous email. Last time I spoke to Sky they have stated that it does start to feel like a bit of a vicious circle as they have been told to re-place the order by OR before and it hasn't achieved anything because the underlying issues have not been resolved.

In the original email I sent to OR I stated that I would like someone to take responsibility to resolve the issue of providing me FTTC and to focus on resolving the infrastructure issues that were at hand, none of which appears to have been taken onboard. For all the talk about needing to place orders, not a single word has been mentioned about the actual issue at play. I've followed up with Openreach and told them this, and that continually placing orders is not going to help resolve the matter if the issues that caused the other orders to fail are not resolved and this was the whole reason for contacting them in the first place!

Sky have now called me and said that they cannot place the order because of the fact that the systems they place the order on are not allowing them to do so. I was told that it is because that the systems do not show that Fibre can be provided at the address.

Meanwhile Openreach have come back saying they cannot do any more until the order is placed.
Quote
Our executive team will look into this to resolve the problems which have caused the delay with this provision. We’ll own this matter until we get your dad up and running.

Our executive team will keep Sky updated on the progress we’re making. And will also explain where things went wrong.

Sky will stay in touch with your dad, keeping him updated until this is sorted out. It’s right that Sky keep your dad informed of what we’re doing – this is the correct industry process.

Honestly I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.
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Freedom2

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2020, 11:28:05 PM »

Latest is that now Sky are unable to place an order on Openreach's systems, so I've had to bounce it back to Openreach again.
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gt94sss2

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Re: Openreach Nightmare - Four activation dates missed - help!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2020, 11:56:07 PM »

The other thing is the communication between OR and the providers doesn't seem great.

A while back OR proposed they should directly contact the end user in the event of issues to improve communication and result in things being resolved faster.

When they proposed the idea to ISPs they objected - the opposition led by Sky and Talktalk i seem to recall.
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CarlT

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2020, 11:59:13 PM »

Latest is that now Sky are unable to place an order on Openreach's systems, so I've had to bounce it back to Openreach again.

Kinda up to Sky to do that.
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Freedom2

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2020, 06:57:46 PM »

Latest Update from Openreach (AM)
The line is exchange only despite the checker saying otherwise and they need to divert the pair to the cabinet in order to fix the issue which they are willing to do, but can only do that following an order from Sky.

Update from Sky (AM)
They cannot place an order because the Openreach system says that no FTTC is available but are not sure why. A full blown internal investigation reviewing all communications and info has been called for the afternoon by the executive team.
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Freedom2

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2020, 07:00:30 PM »

Evening Update from Sky.
An investigation and an extensive internal meeting has taken place about the situation which reviewed all orders and communication between all parts of Sky and Openreach.

It has been confirmed that Openreach have very recently changed the line status on the live system to Exchange Only and this is a result of a failed network rearrangement which missed out the lines in question years ago which has prevented Sky from placing a new order for the service which resulted in the database being incorrect previously which is why they could place an order. This update has not yet been pushed to the Openreach and BT Wholesale checkers as it was very recent which is why they still show I can get FTTC.

Sky have also stated that the communications from Openreach's high level complaints department have left a lot to be desired and have reported that they have been both evasive and unhelpful and there has been a high level of contradiction from Openreach the whole way through. He also read some of the communications that they had received from Openreach out which showed they were not being very helpful.

The Sky position is currently that they are unable to progress this further until Openreach connect the line to the cabinet and fix their mistakes from all those years ago. Until then they are snookered. He said he's come across this before and there's no way they're going to dig the road up for one person, but since they said they would do it, then I need to make sure I do everything in my power to force them to follow through on that.

The only avenue now is to go back through Openreach high level complaints and since they offered to do the work, force them to do it no matter what it takes, because this is the only way things will progress.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2020, 07:47:25 AM »

What a sorry mess, and very confusing at Openreach saying Sky need to place an order when obviously they can't if the system now reports it as an EO line.

Hopefully Openreach complaints will oversee this and get it done.  Its absolutely bizarre that their database can say lines are connected to a cabinet when they are not, how does that even happen?  And I thought my line being recorded on the wrong jumper ID was bad.
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Ronski

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2020, 09:13:52 AM »

  Its absolutely bizarre that their database can say lines are connected to a cabinet when they are not, how does that even happen? 

It's not bizarre at all, when you consider there must be millions of records in that database, data entry errors happen, old records have been digitised. When I mapped our local cabinets I found odd properties supposedly connected to cabinets miles away, which were clearly errors.

OP. Hopefully you're getting somewhere now, albeit slowly, if no progress is made then perhaps a second line is the answer.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2020, 09:49:27 AM »



OP. Hopefully you're getting somewhere now, albeit slowly, if no progress is made then perhaps a second line is the answer.

From what I can glean above, no amount of lines ordered will help the OP acquire FTTC ??.

It reads to me (and I've seen it happen a few times myself), is that the whole DP has been accidentally missed, when extending and jointing the D-side cables into the then newly positioned FTTC Cabinet.

To try and elaborate, the planner (using various electronic systems) will have done his bit and captured 'x' amount of DP's worth 'x' amount of potential customers, in his job-pack. He will then locate the best place for the new Cab to be placed, usually within approx 50mtrs of the existing copper Cab.
Once in place, the distribution cable jointers then identify the relevant DP cables that have been planned, and extends them so they go into the new FTTC Cab in order that we can then cross-connect the VDSL service when an order is placed.

As mooted above, the issue that can sometimes happen (albeit rarely), is that a DP gets missed out by accident during the cable-extending task.

There are many cables in these underground Cab boxes, but for the most part it should be easy (ish) to perform the task, as for example ... you may have 5 DP's all worth 20 customers, so this will manifest itself in the underground Cab box as a 100pr cable. This then gets extended into the FTTC Cab and formed out so each DP runs concurrently down the strip. There may be 2 DP's worth 15 & 20 customers on each, this will manifest itself as a 50pr cable in the underground Cab box and the format will be the same as the 100pr.

It's when you get the odd DP worth 5 customers etc that is fed via its own single cable from the underground box, that a mistake may occur.

Not trying to make light of your plight here, just trying to explain the process and how human error can creep in ... and to point out your road will not need digging up, it simply needs your underground cable extending in the underground Cab box and presented into the FTTC Cab.

I hope this makes sense, if not please say and I'll try to put it further into layman's terms. Cheers.

 
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Ronski

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2020, 10:24:56 AM »

Hi Blacksheep,

There's another thread on https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4656609-openreach-and-their-excuses-for-provisioning-fttc.html?vc=1 with a lot more info.

It would seem that a lot of lines in his vicinity including his own were EO, at some point recently the network was re-arranged to either go to a new cab, or existing, I think existing as PCP 1 is mentioned. It transpires that his line was the only one missed (which seems unlikely just one would be missed, but possible??), not sure how likely this is but one of his direct neighbours does have FTTC, but could be an a different DP, they don't have poles so cant check.

High level complaints at OR are telling him Sky need to place an order for VDSL they can then proceed to fix the problem once an order is on the system, but Sky can't place an order as the system says no VDSL available, so catch 22. Surely OR need to sort the problem so Sky can place the order?

If the system lets Sky order a new VDSL line, then this may be routed correctly already, OR HLC can be notified of the order once placed, and if it's not routed correctly then an order will exist, that's my laymen's thinking .
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Freedom2

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2020, 10:39:50 AM »

The funny thing is a check has been done on all of my neighbours and they are still all showing as connected to Cabinet 1 on the live system (not the public one) it's just my own line that has changed to exchange only.

I've also had the distances from exchange looked at for the next 5 houses down from mine and there's something weird there, they all show 1km, even next door as part of this semi-detached house, whilst here, on my side of the wall, shows 700m which clearly is not right

You would imagine 300m extra distance for the house next door would probably be explained by a diversion to the cabinet., which would show the distance records are right, if not the cabinet ones, but that itself should be a red flag for Openreach that something isn't right.
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Freedom2

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2020, 10:45:53 AM »

Hi Blacksheep,

There's another thread on https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4656609-openreach-and-their-excuses-for-provisioning-fttc.html?vc=1 with a lot more info.

It would seem that a lot of lines in his vicinity including his own were EO, at some point recently the network was re-arranged to either go to a new cab, or existing, I think existing as PCP 1 is mentioned. It transpires that his line was the only one missed (which seems unlikely just one would be missed, but possible??), not sure how likely this is but one of his direct neighbours does have FTTC, but could be an a different DP, they don't have poles so cant check.

High level complaints at OR are telling him Sky need to place an order for VDSL they can then proceed to fix the problem once an order is on the system, but Sky can't place an order as the system says no VDSL available, so catch 22. Surely OR need to sort the problem so Sky can place the order?

If the system lets Sky order a new VDSL line, then this may be routed correctly already, OR HLC can be notified of the order once placed, and if it's not routed correctly then an order will exist, that's my laymen's thinking .

PCP1 was upgraded in March this year with an extra cabinet so I assume it may have happened then. However that cabinet has been there since 2012 so it has been mooted that this problem with inaccurate records has been there since 2012.

Therefore it's possible that this could have happened when the cabinet was installed in 2012 or it could have been the case when the extra cabinet was added to expand it in March this year, but obviously at one of those points there was a re-arrangement of the copper to connect through the cabinets where mine has been missed. 

There's no way of knowing when because I'm currently caring for my father and working from his house following major surgery as he has to have a second op to finish the job which has been delayed by COVID-19 and I have no idea of what the status was before the last couple of months so I can't give that information unfortunately.
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Freedom2

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Re: Openreach - Three activations missed due to Routing Issue
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2020, 11:40:08 AM »

To try and elaborate, the planner (using various electronic systems) will have done his bit and captured 'x' amount of DP's worth 'x' amount of potential customers, in his job-pack. He will then locate the best place for the new Cab to be placed, usually within approx 50mtrs of the existing copper Cab.

Not trying to make light of your plight here, just trying to explain the process and how human error can creep in ... and to point out your road will not need digging up, it simply needs your underground cable extending in the underground Cab box and presented into the FTTC Cab.

Well that shouldn't be too hard, since the boxes are across the road from each other, you can even see where they've dug the road up and ran the cables underground.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.0470105,0.9512364,3a,75y,280.59h,74.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHenTahpI0vf16_1jSD6Pzg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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