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Author Topic: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware  (Read 3171 times)

Weaver

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Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« on: August 21, 2020, 03:12:01 PM »

[I get the feeling that I have asked these questions before, but a search says no, so excuse me if I have failed in this.]

If you have FTTP installed, with an ONT a BBU and whatnot, I would be very worried about failure of the hardware either by mains surge or actions of the evil gods.
  • I’m sure I’ve asked before whether or not it’s possible to get duplicate backup hardware to keep on-site?
  • Is there any reason why I can’t just at least put a very serious mains anti-surge unit in to protect all the kit?
  • Since the hardware and rats’ nest of cabling is hideously ugly and the short inter-cabling is at risk of attack from haggises and hoovers, would it be possible to bolt a stout board on to the wall and have the fibre enter the room through the wall then through the board? Then an attractive custom-designed small cabinet could be fitted on to the board, one which would have a very large cutout in its back. This cabinet would enclose the whole lot for attractiveness and protection from mechanical attack. BT OR has already done such a thing with the large plastic cover box shown in the article; this hides two boxes and their wiring inside one enclosure, but is still not a thing of very great beauty., although a massive improvement.
  • I wonder if anyone can tell me what are the OR installation’s arrangements for preventing water ingress? Since in my case the point of entry to the building is straight into the teeth of a 132 mph hurricane with a firehose pointed straight at it (it’s a bit windy and wet, and it’s straight into the prevailing wind on that side) When I have done this kind of thing before myself, I’ve made sure that the route of entry through a wall is an uphill slope, low on the outside, high on the inside, with a cover over the outside and some kind of goop injected into the space surrounding the cable entry pathway to fill any gaps, seal things well and keep the water out. It might be that OR has a standard installers’ spec that specifies ingress angle fairly exactly and I would want to follow that.
The diagrams I have seen in various places - which I know I should not take to be accurate representations of a particular installation - do not inspire confidence, since they show the cable going through the wall at an angle of 90° which is not a good angle, should be very definitely uphill-inside-high-side. I’m just hoping installers know to do a better job as these days I’m not able to hover over them like a hawk to ensure that the angle is good.

5. Does anyone know if it is possible for the end user to supply the hole, to OR’s specifications? Have it pre-drilled ready for OR to go?

Given that, in my case, it could mean either going through (literally) six-feet thick stone or (not quite literally) nuclear blast-proof unobtainium concrete poured by my neighbour, which has destroyed many a drill bit in the past, then the poor OR installer might be avoiding a nightmare, and I might save some money. Anyway, that way there would be no whinging from me about the hole not being at the right angle to help keep the water out. Angle alone isn’t enough; the goop in the hole needs to be right too of course, and there should be a suitable cover over the outside of the entry point. I already have a problem with water coming into the house from some unknown point that is vaguely around this area; it could even be that the existing DSL entry points are guilty, so I urgently need to look at this.

I don’t know why I’m thinking about these details; I have better odds of winning the lottery than every seeing FTTP before I fall (any further) off my perch.  :angel: >:D  ???
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 11:06:23 AM by Weaver »
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Ronski

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2020, 03:46:42 PM »

I doubt you'll be able to have a spare ONT, as they are coded to the line, so a spare simply wouldn't work.

I would suggest getting your own hole drilled and prepared with a suitable liner pipe, the engineer will be more than happy to use it. Mounting the equipment on a board on the wall is also perfectly acceptable.

Nothing to stop you using a UPS or surge protector either.
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Weaver

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2020, 04:39:54 PM »

Yes I was aware that a random ONT won’t work. But I wonder if I could buy two and get OR to program both to the same settings; that would then be my spare. Otherwise it is all an unnecessary delay. In a place like this with wild weather an lightning surges maybe a really serious mains surge protector would be enough though. The problem is the only time you find out is when it’s too late.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 11:04:33 AM by Weaver »
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tickmike

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2020, 08:56:21 PM »

BTOR do Not supply a ONT BBU so if you floated the ONT on a 12volt re-chargeable battery supply then it would not see any effects from lightning .

BTOR will not supply two ONT's as the Mac address is used to program the VLAN just for that ONT use only.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 06:32:01 PM by tickmike »
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I have a set of 6 fixed IP's From  Eclipse  isp.BT ADSL2(G992.3) line>HG612 as a Modem, Bridge, WAN Not Bound to LAN1 or 2 + Also have FTTP (G.984) No One isp Fixed IP >Dual WAN pfSense (Hardware Firewall and routing).> Two WAN's, Ethernet LAN, DMZ LAN, Zyxel GS1100-24 Switch.

j0hn

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2020, 02:31:53 PM »

OpenReach won't supply 2 ONT's.
It wouldn't work anyway as your ONT serial number is part of what's used to decrypt the data.

OpenReach no longer supply BBU's, ever.

It's now the responsibility of the ISP, who don't supply BBU's but rather a UPS.
They only supply these to vunerable customers and only to those with no mobile reception.

Basically a UPS is going to be your responsibility.

ONT failure is rare. You will learn to live without a spare.
Surge protection of some sort will suffice.

They will drill through your wall at 90° near ground level, even on aerial feeds.
They are (mainly) doing CSP installs and they can't solve at the top of a ladder so the entry point in near the ground.
It is sealed with silicone and an entry cover can be placed on top.
No chance of rain getting in.
You could pre-drill this or leave some conduit somewhere.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 02:37:50 PM by j0hn »
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niemand

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2020, 04:17:55 PM »

It wouldn't work anyway as your ONT serial number is part of what's used to decrypt the data.

It's rather trivial to change serial numbers of a number of ONT models.
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burakkucat

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2020, 05:10:48 PM »

It's rather trivial to change serial numbers of a number of ONT models.

Indeed.
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DaveC

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2020, 10:36:32 PM »

Is the ONT authentication method used by BT actually known?

I've just replaced the ISP's all-in-one router/ONT for an FTTP connection in Spain with a £10 Huawei HG8310M ONT and a Firebrick. 

All that was needed was the 20-digit "ONT ID" readily available in the GUI in the original router.  Even the "landline" (SIP over a dedicated VLAN) is not secured/obfuscated in any way - you simply authenticate with the username "yourphonenumber@telefonica.net" and no password.

The ISP is Movistar (Spanish equivalent to BT).  They don't officially support third-party hardware, but they don't take any measures to prevent it either.
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j0hn

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2020, 10:29:25 AM »

Yes, it is known.

You can't do what you did on OpenReach though.
Well, not as easily anyway.

The OpenReach ONT's don't have an accessible GUI.

You would need to clone the ONT as it will only authenticate with OpenReach with that exact serial number.

It's definitely possible. I'll say no more.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 10:32:24 AM by j0hn »
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Weaver

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2020, 11:05:48 AM »

Anyone able to help me with my other questions 2-5 ?
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j0hn

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2020, 01:50:55 PM »

Anyone able to help me with my other questions 2-5 ?

I answered both above.

You can use any mains anti surge unit you like. It's your property.

You can pre drill the hole yourself, or even install conduit and a draw string.
You need to be sure that where you are drilling is where the feed will enter your property.
If a CSP (customer splice point) is fitted to the outside of your property then the line must enter near ground level.
They can't splice up a ladder.
This means aerial feeds must run down the wall before entering the property.

I had a single cable install on the 12th with no CSP installed so not all installs are with a CSP.
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Weaver

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2020, 02:56:06 PM »

So you did J0hn, my apologies and my thanks; I just couldn’t see for looking.
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Weaver

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2020, 03:00:01 PM »

How would things work out then if entry were needed at first floor level? I don’t understand the CSP concept.

Do I understand that the choice of position for the point of entry is more restricted than for copper?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 03:02:24 PM by Weaver »
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burakkucat

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2020, 05:47:46 PM »

The Customer Splice Point (CSP) is a weather-proof enclosure that is fitted to the outside of a building, at ground level. It provides a housing for the junction between the exterior and interior fibre cables. The junction is a fusion splice. It is a big no for the CSP to be fitted other than at ground level. The installers are not allowed to use a fusion splicer at the top of a ladder.

Here are some images of the CSP from psychopomp1's installation --

https://postimg.cc/vgVBmM5d
https://postimg.cc/V09kjR7G
https://postimg.cc/Dm9vkbDz
https://postimg.cc/xXRnzpdk
https://postimg.cc/PChdNnds
https://postimg.cc/6yC99pJf
https://postimg.cc/B8nsc58m

According to one of Zarjaz's posts in the Thinkbroadband Forum, the above images show the old style CSP. The new CSP is square, not rectangular.
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j0hn

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Re: Question about FTTP ONT and other EU hardware
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2020, 06:00:17 PM »

I suppose technically they could run the fibre down your wall, install a CSP at ground level, then run it back up the wall to the 1st floor.

The maximum length from CSP to ONT with the new cables is 30m according to Zarjaz (engineer on TBB).

By the time FTTP comes to you (if it ever does) the deployment method may have changed again.
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