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Author Topic: Global warming  (Read 901 times)

jelv

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Global warming
« on: July 22, 2020, 07:20:59 PM »

Just laying this down as a marker: I have a strong suspicion that in the next few weeks there will suddenly be a fair amount of discussion about global warming and particularly the melting of the Arctic sea ice. Apart from the fact that year on year more of it melts, all the soot from the fires in Siberia makes the ice darker and it absorbs more heat, so melts faster.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2020, 07:36:43 PM »

As long as it comes from convincing scientific resources, rather than TV celebrities and Swedish school children, I’ll certainly be interested to follow any such developments. :)
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z1ts

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2020, 09:09:14 AM »

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jelv

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2020, 10:30:36 AM »

Unlike total and utter prats like Nigel Lawson, Greta hasn't ever at any stage pretended to be an expert herself. All she has done, and all the campaign she has started has done, is say that there is overwhelming evidence from well over 90% of actual scientists and that governments need to listen to the science and start to do something urgently, not fudge figures to pretend to be doing something.

If what I expect to happen does, it will be hard facts from a very reputable source and I expect Greta will be publicising the source.
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chenks

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2020, 10:43:58 AM »

Greta is a puppet.
she needs to go back to school and complete her education before she preaches to anyone about anything. she isn't even an expert in living yet.

are you suggesting that 90% of the scientists aren't listing to the science?

global warming is a cyclic event, it would have happened whether we were here or not. yes the human race may be accelerating it, but that's the cost of creating the world we live in.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2020, 10:49:51 AM »

Imho, we shouldn’t take upon ourselves to publicise things we are not qualified to understand.   Doing so presents two dangers...

1.There’s a danger of publicising bad science, science that is flawed.

2. There’s a danger of misunderstanding the science, even if it is good, possibly drawing the wrong conclusions, and publicising them.

Once an individual like Greta intervenes, true scientific debate becomes more difficult.  I’m not qualified to participate in the debate at technical level but it certainly makes more sceptical.  Same goes for Lawson’s interventions by the way, I am automatically sceptical of anything he may say on climate science.   Though that worries me less as he gets less media coverage,

Unlike total and utter prats like Nigel Lawson
May I suggest that we avoid abusive language?   Being rude about a person with whom you (and many of us) disagree does not prove them to be wrong, and nor does prove you to be right..
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chenks

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2020, 10:53:32 AM »

oh please! prat is hardly abusive language.
as is often said, just because you are offended doesn't make you right.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2020, 11:14:35 AM »

Can’t we just play nicely, for once?
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2020, 02:27:51 PM »

Since we’ve already referred to ‘hard facts’, and that expression is often used to convince the masses of certain aspects of climate science, I wonder if it worth pausing to think about the difference between facts and theories.

To me, it would be a fact that Siberian wildfires are taking place.   But saying they are caused by global warming caused in turn by human activity is a theory, not a fact.  Equally, forming a model based on a theory and using it to forecast the future, cannot ever produce a fact, imho.

We still refer to Einstein’s theories of relativity for example but while most physicists seem happy to accept the theories and to run with them, I don’t often hear them called ‘facts of relativity’.

This link discusses how scientific theories differ from facts, also bringing ‘laws’ into the debate, which are something else again.

https://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-definition-of-theory.html
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chenks

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2020, 03:46:40 PM »

don't confuse scientific theory and theory.
they are not the same thing

scientific theory
Quote
A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results.

theory
Quote
an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action
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jelv

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2020, 11:21:13 AM »

are you suggesting that 90% of the scientists aren't listing to the science?

Why is it that people deliberately misinterpret what we say to suit their agenda? I posted:

and that governments need to listen to the science

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chenks

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2020, 11:34:05 AM »

i was asking it as a question, and i have no agenda.
but if you think i do then i'd be all ears to hear what you think it is.
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jelv

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2020, 09:34:52 PM »

Now second lowest (after 2012) and still heading down steeply.

For the years 1979-1990 the minimum average arctic sea ice extent was 6.95 million km2.

For the years 2011-2019 the minimum average arctic sea ice extent was 4.49 million km2.

In 2012 the minimum of 3.387 million km2 was recorded on September 17th. Yesterday it was 4.003 million km2, 0.088 million km2 lower than the previous day.

With around 10-15 days more with the ice melting it looks unlikely we'll see a new record low, but it's already significantly lower than the next lowest at 4.165 million km2 recorded 10/09/2016.
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Bowdon

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2020, 02:29:48 PM »

I'm a simple man on this topic.

It was my understanding that climate change was more about weather patterns moving around the globe, so previously colder areas would become warmer and previously hot places would become colder?

So in that theory, though its correct to say the ice in the arctic is melting, isn't ice forming somewhere else?
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j0hn

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2020, 02:44:14 PM »

No.
More ice is melting than is forming.
That's why sea levels are rising.
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