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Author Topic: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)  (Read 4167 times)

Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2020, 03:47:54 AM »

I'm well aware that Gigabit on GPON basically can only support 2 customers per PON at maximum speed, my point was more that something which is supposed to make things easier for the customer, isn't really.  Because an average metric across DOCSIS, ADSL, VDSL, GPON, potentially bottleneck in completely different ways.  DSL being a particularly problematic one, due to line length/quality being the biggest limitation.

I'm really just saying what you have, there is no easy fix for advertising.  I just think the current system is still rather flawed, what with not even covering upload speeds at all.

Plus as you say, there is huge problem with not explaining to customers that with the faster connections, you simply CAN'T hit the peak speeds in most use cases.  Thus why I'm constantly correcting people on forums about the fact not hitting Gigabit on your speedtest doesn't mean a damn thing.
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Geekofbroadband

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2020, 11:38:00 AM »

How does the landline phone work with the latest way BT handle FTTP, I've been looking around online and some people say you plug the phone into the ONT while others have said on here the new line they install is a 2 in 1 fibre/copper line meaning it would have its own socket or use the existing one now?

Then also this new "BT Digital Voice" where you plug the phone into your Smart Hub 2, could this not cause issues down the road if you wanted to use your own router, it would need a phone socket.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 12:15:05 PM by Geekofbroadband »
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2020, 12:24:28 PM »

AFAIK BT never did the "plug phone into ONT" route, although personally that's the one I favour.  Even if its less flexible, the fact it means VoIP traffic can be completely separated from broadband traffic with corresponding QoS, without the end user having to worry about that on their router, seems wise.  Going forward, how will that service even work without broadband if its not driven by the ONT?

Right now though, its the dual fibre and copper line.
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RealAleMadrid

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2020, 12:33:57 PM »

I am sure that the original BT FVA (Fibre Voice Access ) on earlier FTTP provisions did provide the phone service via a socket on the ONT which is why there was the Battery backup unit for the ONT to keep the phone connection working. This has all changed now with BT Digital voice which has the phone connected to the Smarthub, making using a different router difficult.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2020, 02:10:44 PM »

I am sure that the original BT FVA (Fibre Voice Access ) on earlier FTTP provisions did provide the phone service via a socket on the ONT which is why there was the Battery backup unit for the ONT to keep the phone connection working. This has all changed now with BT Digital voice which has the phone connected to the Smarthub, making using a different router difficult.

It certainly was the plan, this is even still on the website:
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/super-fastfibreaccess/fibrevoiceaccess/fibrevoiceaccess.do

Its also how its done in other countries and to me it seems the only logical way going forward for people who want a landline but no broadband.  I'm baffled they ditched the BBU as it should at least be an optional extra.
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j0hn

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2020, 03:03:12 PM »

How does the landline phone work with the latest way BT handle FTTP, I've been looking around online and some people say you plug the phone into the ONT while others have said on here the new line they install is a 2 in 1 fibre/copper line meaning it would have its own socket or use the existing one now?

Then also this new "BT Digital Voice" where you plug the phone into your Smart Hub 2, could this not cause issues down the road if you wanted to use your own router, it would need a phone socket.

Openreach stopped selling FVA (fibre voice access) at the end of March 2020.
This is the phone service connection via the ONT.
BT are the only ISP to ever sell FVA.
Customers on FVA can remain on it but it can no longer be ordered.

The replacement for FVA is Digital Voice which requires the telephone be connected to the BT Hub to work.

If on Digital Voice the only way to make or receive landline calls is to use the BT Smart Hub.

So if you need the landline and you require using your own router then you need to find another ISP.
This is probably how most large ISP's will handle VOIP though.

If you have a copper line the chances are BT will keep that active for voice for now.

Eventually BT will switch all customers to Digital Voice, not just on FTTP but also on ADSL, FTTC and G.Fast.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 03:08:16 PM by j0hn »
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sof006

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2020, 03:11:19 PM »

So this Digital Voice service is essentially BT's version of VoIP? Thats the impression I get from it.

I think I would rather sign up for a VoIP service as i've heard they tend to be significantly cheaper than actual landline costs.
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j0hn

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2020, 03:37:25 PM »

So this Digital Voice service is essentially BT's version of VoIP? Thats the impression I get from it.

I think I would rather sign up for a VoIP service as i've heard they tend to be significantly cheaper than actual landline costs.

Yes.

PSTN is being switched off in 2025 so all ISP's will have to switch to VOIP by then.

Some ISP's will sell broadband without a bundled voice service allowing you to use a 3rd party VOIP provider.

BT don't sell broadband without a bundled voice service. They will bundle Digital Voice with their broadband packages but customers will still be able to use a 3rd party VOIP provider instead.

PSTN will close in 2025 but not everyone will have FTTP by then so customers on xDSL will also have to switch to VOIP.

BT have been trialing Digital Voice with FTTC and G.Fast customers and eventually this will be the default for all lines.

Sky currently sell G.Fast with VOIP only, no PSTN (SOGFAST).
The only way to make "landline" calls is via the telephone port (ATA port) on the Sky router.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 03:41:15 PM by j0hn »
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2020, 01:35:20 AM »

I'm just not a fan of VoIP, too much scope for latency.  How can it possibly work properly for people on noisy lines with high interleaving?

There's also so much scope for it to go horribly wrong if you are maxing out your broadband and want to make a call.

Its good to have it as an option sure, but I feel some people are going to have a really bad time once its mandatory.
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Ronski

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2020, 06:45:32 AM »

We have at best 38/5Mbps at work, always interleaved, about 700 IIRC. There's 6 staff with PCs that constantly back up to the cloud, the rest of the staff all have guest WiFi access.

We had loads of issue's when they first setup 3CX, the phone company never implemented QOS. Once that was properly set up call quality vastly improved.

Other companies I deal with are always having problems with VoIP, some clearly because QOS isn't set up.

My biggest annoyance is the way 3CX handles my dect coreless phone, I dial out from the softphone on the PC as it's where all my numbers are stored for really easy access (not in 3CX) but as it transfers the call to the cordless instantly I actually don't get a ringing tone, I get our on hold music until the call is answered! That's the way it's supposed to work apparently, most annoying. I've actually taken to dialling the number from the handset.

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PhilipD

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2020, 08:08:48 AM »

I'm just not a fan of VoIP, too much scope for latency.  How can it possibly work properly for people on noisy lines with high interleaving?

Latency seen on interleaved connections shouldn't be an issue or noticeable, certainly no worse than the latency on the average mobile phone call.

Quote
There's also so much scope for it to go horribly wrong if you are maxing out your broadband and want to make a call.

This is why the tendency will be to supply VoIP from the router which will be supplied pre-setup with QoS.

Quote
Its good to have it as an option sure, but I feel some people are going to have a really bad time once its mandatory.

It will or course become the only option, and yes some people will have a poor experience if their existing copper has issues such as drop outs, but the aim is of course to get many millions onto FTTP and then eventually everyone on FTTP, so the humble landline will be over fibre optic cable from the home and digital all the way and better than it was before. 

I suspect many thousands of people who are now working from home have been introduced to VoIP by way of a "works" phone and so a move to a VoIP landline will not seem so strange as it might have been for some. 

Of course a lot of people have already ditched a landline line for phone calls, and many more will come 2025.

Regards

Phil
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Bowdon

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2020, 01:48:23 PM »

I just looked up my cousins address in Wythenshawe and noticed he has the top FTTP speed available to him.

He's a business man. But I'd be surprised if he actually realises he has FTTP available. It's left to me to let him know.

There needs to be a lot more promotion of FTTP services in my opinion, even if it's targetted mail at the areas that have become FTTP enabled.
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busterboy

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2020, 02:17:31 PM »

I'd be surprised if he actually realises he has FTTP available.

Really surprises me when people who use the internet don't follow what ISP's are offering and any upgrades they may be offered. :(

Jeebus I'm checking daily to see any progress or updates. :lol:
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Geekofbroadband

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2020, 02:22:07 PM »

I only checked becauae an openreach engineer told me when he was doing repairs on my line about 4 months ago they are installing fibre to the home, then about 2 weeks ago they were digging up the roads and installing new cables so I checked everyday until it said it was avaliable  ;D

But I agree there should be more promotion for something as significant as FTTP, I feel like we would check this sort of thing regularly because we're into it, but the average person wouldn't know unless told
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PhilipD

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Re: FTTP 910Mbs now available. (Questions)
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2020, 02:42:06 PM »

Hi

The emphasis is on properties passed and not properties connected, so the priority and resources is to keep passing properties.  Getting everyone connected is an issue for another time.   So currently we see this time as an investment taking place into the network now, rather than a marketing exercise to move people to a different product.

Also think about the monumental effort it is going to take to connect up tens of millions of properties that are going to be passed in the coming years.  Something on a similar scale is already taking place and that is replacing meters for smart meters, a very similar task to a FTTP install as it needs an appointment at each property with the home owner home and we know how well that is going! 

In many ways connecting each home up to FTTP is actually a lot more complex than replacing everyone's meter.  Roads may need closing to unblock ducts or get fibre across a road and it may need two appointments at the property.  The cheapest way to achieve it is to take a street or town at a time and target areas to be done on the same day or the same week using a dedicate team with all resources there ready, i.e. do it in bulk rather than encouraging a few here and a few there.  So I think it is deliberate they are not really marketing or encouraging take up at this time. They will start marketing it actively town by town when they are ready, and this sort of mass migration over to FTTP is already being tested.

The other thing is people don't tend to pay much more for FTTP, they often stick on slower packages paying the same price, so there is the cost of installing FTTP with no extra income for it.  So it is only worth getting people on FTTP en-mass when they are ready to turn off copper town by town/city by city, as their payback then is selling no longer needed land and properties, scrap value on any copper recovered and saving on the maintenance costs.

Regards

Phil

« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 02:46:12 PM by PhilipD »
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