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Author Topic: FTTP latency.... higher than on VDSL(FTTC)  (Read 4480 times)

zvirus

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Re: FTTP latency.... higher than on VDSL(FTTC)
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2020, 07:04:47 PM »

Hi,

Well, looks like I have to report this as this is a matter of Fact.

The delays improved after few days. I do not know why and for HOW LONG but they are great.

>ping 1.1.1.1  -n 10

Pinging 1.1.1.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 1.1.1.1:
    Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 13ms, Maximum = 17ms, Average = 14ms

>ping bbc.co.uk -n 10

Pinging bbc.co.uk [151.101.0.81] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.0.81: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 151.101.0.81:
    Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 13ms, Maximum = 19ms, Average = 15ms




Keep in mind it`s not FTTP (I have found recently) Its hybrid line and it`s trumped out as *FIBRE OPTIC* but shall be called DOCSIS 3.0 Line.... or simple Fibre COAX:



Grey is coaxial, Yellow is fibre....
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 07:27:36 PM by zvirus »
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j0hn

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Re: FTTP latency.... higher than on VDSL(FTTC)
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2020, 10:42:06 PM »

What's not FTTP? Your Virgin connection?

I'm confused. Earlier in the thread you wrote.

Quote
Fibre optic to  my property (wall) then coax = DOCSIS 3 Cable

Around 15m Fibre Optic from street cab + 1.5m coax to be precise...

That describes a Virgin connection in a new Project Lightning area.
Your diagram is the older Virgin deployment method.

It depends where in the country you are if your Virgin is FTTP or not.

Expansion in older Virgin areas is HFC (Hybrid Fibre Coax) as your diagram shows.
Their rollout to new areas is FTTP.
It's still DOCSIS from the cabinet but they use RFOG (radio frequency over glass) to send the DOCSIS over fibre.

Virgin just rolled out to my area and it isn't as your diagram describes.
I have fibre right to my doorstep.
They fit a box on the wall outside and the fibre is converted back to coax before entering my property.
That way they can use the same TV box and modem/hub in both deployment scenarios.

An FTTP deployment will have a box on the wall outside, then a single piece of coax entering the property to a powered socket, then coax from the powered socket enters the Hub.

Too many people trying to confuse you on the Virgin forums.
No idea how hortonj88 knows you are on FTTP without asking you any questions.
Without you describing your setup or what area you are in they can't tell if you are HFC or FTTP.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 10:52:02 PM by j0hn »
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zvirus

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Re: FTTP latency.... higher than on VDSL(FTTC)
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2020, 06:08:03 AM »

Hi,

After reading this: https://www.cablelabs.com/driving-gigabit-speeds-from-lab-to-consumer?utm_campaign  (a bit)

Got some good news for myself from that article:

"...Therefore, HFC and FTTH networks are technologically equivalent as it pertains to latency, and differences between networks are more likely to be driven by factors that are not reliant on the choice of physical medium. Latency parity potential between HFC and FTTH is seen, for example, in the FCC’s Measuring Broadband America program. The top-performing cable and FTTH networks have average round-trip latencies of about 15 milliseconds. ..."



I think i shall only use term HFC Broadband not FTTP Broadband (I guess)

« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 06:11:39 AM by zvirus »
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zvirus

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Re: HFC latency.... higher than on VDSL(FTTC)
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2020, 06:14:37 AM »



...
Their rollout to new areas is FTTP.
It's still DOCSIS from the cabinet but they use RFOG (radio frequency over glass) to send the DOCSIS over fibre.

Virgin just rolled out to my area and it isn't as your diagram describes.
I have fibre right to my doorstep.
They fit a box on the wall outside and the fibre is converted back to coax before entering my property.
....

This is what I HAVE too :)
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j0hn

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Re: FTTP latency.... higher than on VDSL(FTTC)
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2020, 02:46:50 PM »

This is what I HAVE too :)


Then you are on Virgin FTTP, not Virgin HFC.

It makes no difference to the service and the exact same packages are available on both FTTP and HFC.

Virgin are currently upgrading the entire UK network from DOCSIS 3.0 to DOCSIS 3.1 which increases the top available package from 500Mb to 1Gb.
1Gb is available on both fibre and coax.

Quote
I think i shall only use term HFC Broadband not FTTP Broadband (I guess)

That would be incorrect as you aren't part of the HFC (Hybrid Fibre Coax) network.
It is FTTP.
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zvirus

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Re: FTTP latency.... higher than on VDSL(FTTC)
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2020, 03:16:00 PM »

 ;) :D :D

Well... took me weeks to find out whats going on... 40Mb was plenty for me 200Mb is overkill. Im more about UPLOAD speeds... = sharing files with family abroad...

Thanks!!!


today's pings:

>ping 1.1.1.1  -n 5

Pinging 1.1.1.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 1.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 1.1.1.1:
    Packets: Sent = 5, Received = 5, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 14ms, Average = 14ms

>ping bbc.co.uk -n 5

Pinging bbc.co.uk [151.101.64.81] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 151.101.64.81:
    Packets: Sent = 5, Received = 5, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 13ms, Maximum = 15ms, Average = 14ms

Perfect!  :fingers:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 03:18:13 PM by zvirus »
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PhilipD

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Re: FTTP latency.... higher than on VDSL(FTTC)
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2020, 04:39:40 PM »

That would be incorrect as you aren't part of the HFC (Hybrid Fibre Coax) network.
It is FTTP.

It sort of still is hybrid fibre coax so I can see the point they are making, just the coax part is a couple of metres at most.  I think Virgin need to modernise their platform and and not just the cable that carries the signal.  DOCSIS is a hack to get data and TV over co-ax when cable TV was only ever designed for TV, it seems silly to keep it over fibre.

Given their fibre and co-ax works in exactly the same way, their advertising of FTTP and their Virgin Project Lightning is nothing more than marketing, as it gives no advantages, and is used on new installs likely because it is cheaper to buy fibre cable than it is to buy co-ax and they can use cheaper ducting techniques.  Or am I missing something?

Its like Openreach taking FTTP to the CSP outside the house and then converting it to G.Fast so the home user can use their same modem and telephone master socket, thankfully they don't as it is stupid way of introducing real fibre connections to the home.

Regards

Phil
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FTTP latency.... higher than on VDSL(FTTC)
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2020, 10:28:46 PM »

Its like Openreach taking FTTP to the CSP outside the house and then converting it to G.Fast so the home user can use their same modem and telephone master socket, thankfully they don't as it is stupid way of introducing real fibre connections to the home.

Regards

Phil

Its hard to argue with their cost savings by being able to continue using their existing equipment and wiring in the home.

You also have to consider that with COAX, you can safely unplug it when cleaning the house and moving things to different rooms is much easier if they already have COAX in there, not so with fibre.

I can't see a solution that is better for Cable, having an ethernet port for the cable box and an ethernet port for the Internet would just be more confusing for the end user.  Plus feeding TV into other rooms would be much more complicated.
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