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[zvirus]

Hi,

This is my first post and I did my home work. There is no info on google about this "issue".

I have been using TalkTalk for years but never bothered to check the stats or never wondered why my pings are at 40-50ms and in the end I was getting full 39999kb down and 9999kb up speeds...



Then I have had this "brilliant" idea of going for "better" router. And got Asus DSL-N16. Really(like) Asus Wrt firmware - its the best in the world to me... so what... my line become unstable and found this router rather... useless???

Put back my old D-Link DSL‑3782 and guess what? Yes, SNR went to 10dB and speeds dropped BUT G.INP kicked in!!! to a router which suppose to not support G.INP!!

BEFORE:


Pings from 40ms went to 12ms and VERY little errors...







But not for long... today morning it`s been switched off(?) and TalkTalk employees were giving me various(silly) explanations and excuses.

AFTER:


In the end I have been left with questions like:

1. Why G.INP was turned on and working on a router which according to manual is not supporting G.INP?
2. Why is it suddenly GONE?
3. Why people at TalkTalk cant give me answers?

Got HG612 3B on it`s way to me. Shall I wait for new modem and then see?


Thanks for any help!




Cheers
Tomas

[tubaman]

I'd be surprised if the DSL-3782 didn't support G.INP given that it's one of TalkTalk's newer routers.
DLM must have thought there were line issues to apply G.INP which it now clearly thinks have gone. The fact that this morning's resync moved your SNR Margin from 10.1dB to 8.5dB suggests to me that DLM is starting to relax its hold. If I were you I'd leave it alone for a good few days and hopefully it'll return to normal again.
 

[zvirus]

Thank You!

Well....

 To be honest instead of 40Mb I`d like to have 30Mb and  low error number and low latency...(12ms not 30-40ms)

 What does it mean: "...it'll return to normal again"

 To me normal is G.INP turned ON which NEVER has been for years as I have never been checking those things until now...

 Am I a weirdo asking for G.INP on?

 

[mofa2020]

Are you on huawei or ECI cabinet? if huawei then I guess the DSL-3782 is keeping your line interleaved and the 40-50ms ping would be including the delay DLM sees your line needs "without G.inp" to perform well at this speed, I think you will do your line a favor by getting the HG612 "you may need to unlock first to see more stats that are not shown with locked firmware" DLM would apply G.INP and lower or even remove interleaving this will grant you lower pings and I guess you will sync. @ a higher speed due to the broadcom chipset that HG612 uses it perform well on most FTTC lines in UK.

I believe DSL-3782 do not support G.inp at all like my DSL-2888A.

[zvirus]

huawei cabinet...

what about this? Print screen taken on my D-Link 3782(!):


And FACT - I have had very little errors + low delay 12ms! from N. Ireland Server to bbc.co.uk

 HG612 not far away from me  Shall arrive early next week...


Am I a weirdo asking for G.INP on???

Thanks mofa2020 - I know everything now!

Cheers!

[mofa2020]

  did not see the G.998.4(G.INP) part,,, DLM would enable G.INP again as it sees the line returned to before the Asus router. can you ssh the DSL-3782 using putty? if so try this command xdsl_cli info --status I have the DSL-2888A and this command shows more stats about the router that are not shown in router UI.

[zvirus]

only this works with My D-Link:

tcapi show Info_Adsl

and this:

cat /proc/tc3162/adsl_stats

<sup># tcapi show Info_Adsl
proc/tc3162/adsl_stats
outDiscards=4889
inDiscards=4
outBytes=1767397659
inBytes=4101801606
inMulticastPkts_0=0
inMulticastPkts_1=0
inUnicastPkts_0=15877095
inUnicastPkts_1=0
outUnicastPkts_0=11228375
outUnicastPkts_1=0
outMulticastPkts_0=0
outMulticastPkts_1=0
rxErrCrc_0=0
rxErrCrc_1=0
rxErrLong_0=0
rxErrLong_1=0
rxErrRunt_0=0
rxErrRunt_1=0
rxErrIp4Cs_0=0
rxErrIp4Cs_1=0
rxErrL4Cs_0=0
rxErrL4Cs_1=0
outPkts=11228375
inPkts=15877095
inCrcErr=0
CurrentProfiles= 17a
UPBOKLE= 15.5
TRELLISds= 1
TRELLISus= 1
ACTSNRMODEds= 1
ACTSNRMODEus= 1
ACTUALCE= 640
SNRMpbds= 83,83,83,84,-512
SNRMpbus= 75,76,75,76,-512
fwVer= FwVer:5.5.1.174_B_A60901 HwVer:T14.F7_0.2

lineState=up
Opmode=ITU G.993.2(VDSL2)
SNRMarginDown=8.6 dB
AttenDown=15.3 dB
SNRMarginUp=7.5 dB
AttenUp=5.0 dB
DataRateDown=29998 kbps
DataRateUp=8495 kbps
WanListMode=0
FECDown=4714494
FECUp=7706
CRCDown=0
CRCUp=0
HECDown=0
HECUp=0
ADSLUpTime=0d:11h:23m:41s
ADSLActiveTime=0d:0h:0m:17s
PowerDown=11.3 dbm
PowerUp=7.0 dbm
ATURID=26005443434e0000
ATUCID=b5004244434da4a1
AttainUp=11936
AttainDown=55060
ShowtimeStart=17
TotalStart=34
ATURANSIRev=0
ATUCANSIRev=0
ATURANSIStd=0
ATUCANSIStd=0
InterleaveDepth=2962
AdslStandard=VDSL2
AdslType=ANNEX_B
ATURChanIntleaveDelay=15
ATURChanPrevTXRate=8495 kbps
ATURChanCurrTXRate=8495 kbps
ATURChanCrcBlkLen=3
mtenStandard=G.dmt.bisplus (Annex L)
nat_num=4
# cat /proc/tc3162/adsl_stats
ADSL link status: up

Opmode: ITU G.993.2(VDSL2)
TPSTC type: 64/65B PTM TC

near-end interleaved channel bit rate: 29998 kbps
near-end fast channel bit rate: 0 kbps
far-end interleaved channel bit rate: 8495 kbps
far-end fast channel bit rate: 0 kbps

near-end FEC error fast: 0
near-end FEC error interleaved: 4714494
near-end CRC error fast: 0
near-end CRC error interleaved: 0
near-end HEC error fast: 0
near-end HEC error interleaved: 0
far-end FEC error fast: 0
far-end FEC error interleaved: 7706
far-end CRC error fast: 0
far-end CRC error interleaved: 0
far-end HEC error fast: 0
far-end HEC error interleaved: 0
ADSL uptime :0d:11h:23m:41s
ADSL activetime :0d:0h:0m:17s

Downstream:
relative capacity occupation: 100%
noise margin downstream: 8.6 dB
output power upstream: 7.0 dbm
attenuation downstream: 15.3 dB

Upstream:
relative capacity occupation: 100%
noise margin upstream: 7.5 dB
output power downstream: 11.3 dbm
attenuation upstream: 5.0 dB

Bit table:
carrier load: number of bits per tone
tone   0- 31: 00 00 00 05 67 88 88 89 99 99 88 87 77 66 55 32
tone  32- 63: 25 55 76 77 67 77 88 99 99 9a ab bb bb bb cc cc
tone  64- 95: dd dd dc dd cd cc dc dd cd cc dd dd cc cc cd cc
tone  96-127: cc cd cc dc cc dc cc cc cc cb cc cb cb cc cc cc
tone 128-159: bb cc cc bb cb cb cb bb bc bc bc bc bb bb bb bb
tone 160-191: bb bb bb ba ab bb bb ab bb ab aa bb ba ba aa aa
tone 192-223: ba aa ab ab aa ba 9a aa aa a7 aa ba aa ab aa aa
tone 224-255: aa aa 9a 9a ab a9 9a 8a aa 99 9a 9a a9 a9 88 a9

near end itu identification: 26005443434e0000
far end itu identification: b5004244434da4a1
attain upstream: 11936
attain downstream: 55060

ADSL activetime second: 17
ADSL total ativetime second: 34
ATURANSIRev: 0
ATUCANSIRev: 0
ATURANSIStd: 0
ATUCANSIStd: 0
Interleave Depth: 2962

atur chan interleave delay: 15
atur chan prev tx rate: 8495 kbps
atur chan curr tx rate: 8495 kbps
atur chan crc block len: 0
Adsl Standard: VDSL2
Adsl Type: ANNEX_B</sup>

and some basic stats from that Asus which is gone now...

[mofa2020]

So at last I sorted the G.INP in my brain  and it is weird  to be on for 7 days then suddenly remove it, but this does mean that the DSL-3782 support it I guess  may be originally not support it but with firmware upgrade it can (like ZTE h168n needs upgrade to support G.INP, or some Vigors to support vectoring) the more likely question is why DLM turned it off! as I know G.INP means at least lower interleave / ms ping or a step to apply fastpath if the line really stable and DLM sure about that after a period of monitoring.

May be the chipset does not fully compatible with DSLAM regarding G.INP? for ex. support it on one side not both DS/US (do not know if it is possible or not) that is why DLM disabled it.....

I still believe that the HG612 would sort it out and give DSLAM / DLM an opportunity to improve your line connection and us to understand.

[tiffy]

Not familiar with either of your modem/routers, have never been a TT customer.

Are you 100% sure that your D-Link modem/router is actually running DS G.Inp (contrary to it's spec's) the only indication of this I can see is under "Modulation" in the GUI snapshot you have provided, is this authentic ?
I can't see anything in the stat's you provided that indicates DS G.Inp is active.

Can see from the Asus GUI snapshot you provided that you are on a Huawei DSLAM, you also stated you were pinging from N.I. where I can verify that I have never seen an ECI DSLAM cabinet, believe N.I. is 100% Huawei infrastructure.

My understanding of G.Inp operation on a Huawei DSLAM with a G.Inp enabled modem connected, I'am sure I will be advised if this is incorrect:
DS G.Inp is applied by default, you or your ISP have no control over this it's an automatic DLM function.
DS G.Inp has 2 profiles, re-tx low or re-tx-high, application is again a DLM function governed by the DS error rate on your line.
US G.Inp is not applied by default, DLM will apply if US error rates dictate but is usually removed again if/when error rates improve.

You mention you have a Huawei HG-612 3B arrival pending.
I'am sure you are aware that this is a modem only, will have to be "bridged" to a router to establish any connection with your ISP.
Not sure if your D-Link router/modem supports bridging mode, most routers do but you will need to check this.
With a suitable "unlocked" HG-612 you will be able to get much more detailed stat's. and utilise a third party utility such as DSLStats to monitor, unlocking firmware and method to upgrade are available on the forum, guite an easy process should your HG-612 not already be unlocked.

To give you an idea of what a Broadcom router DSLStats interface looks like have attached the "basic stat's" from my modem/router which show very clearly that DS G.Inp is active, US G.Inp is not.
I am currently on DS G.Inp re-tx high profile due to a recent line upset but expect this to revert to low again soon by DLM action.
There is a positive indication of DS G.Inp profile state available in the more detailed router stat's.

Hope this helps.

Cross post while typing acknowledged:   

[zvirus]

 

I`m Certified Comptia A+ Technician (not network specialized) (to be not very modest) and dont use ISPs(useless) routers since I can remember. 

I use TT`s so called "Routers" only bridged to my Netgear R7000 with (amazing) Xwrt-Vortex - its solid rock stable, fast and the GUI is one of the best ever seen... wonder why bothered with DD-WRT for years... anyway..

"...I can't see anything in the stat's you provided that indicates DS G.Inp is active...."
I have posted STATS after G.INP was turned off


As said before, cant show You guys proper LOGS only that screenshot PLUS as said my pings were 12ms I swear on my kids...

so I have assumed G.INP was really turned on.


No worries soon after connecting HG612 if you say so..

Thanks and BIG RESPECT for all your kindness and KNOWLEDGE guys!!! 

[Alex Atkin UK]

I really wouldn't be that surprised that they might have enabled G.INP in a firmware update and forgot to mention it.

The puzzling thing is from what you are saying it sounds like the ASUS caused G.INP to kick in and switching the routers back it was naturally still enabled, but then disabled again.

Why on earth would it do that?  All I can think is there were some errors that DLM could see and the lack of stats means you couldn't. But its all very puzzling as you'd think G.INP would be tried before resorting to Interleaving, so something we can't identify must be going on here.

Hopefully the HG612 will resolve it.

[zvirus]

Apologies.. yes I did firmware update(forget to mention) to D-Link and this could add G.INP feature...


Still unsure because after connecting Asus it started DLM as I was stupid enough to fiddle with routers (disconnecting from line to many imes  )

Every night - RESET (not on my side!)and slower speeds.... contacted TT and was told: No, router is fine, line is not.... well.. was not bad last 7 years IMO 

Anyway.... cant wait what will happen when connect PROPER modem!

[tiffy]

@zvirus:

Apologies if I came across as condescending, that was not my intention, as a new forum contributor I was unsure of your level of knowledge.

[zvirus]

@zvirus:

Apologies if I came across as condescending, that was not my intention, as a new forum contributor I was unsure of your level of knowledge.

  I`m REALLY green regarding DSL technology... no need to apologise!

Plus I was not very precise  - My apologies to all!

[j0hn]

The DLM will remove G.INP when the Asus is placed on the line, though it might not be instant.

The mediatek chipset was misbehaving so OpenReach took the decision to stop G.INP on all the Asus modems that use it.

Leave the Asus off the line and wait for DLM to reapply G.INP.