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Author Topic: High packet loss on Virgin  (Read 9705 times)

exdirectory

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #195 on: October 17, 2020, 02:48:47 PM »

unless you have QoS prioritising ping packets (not necessarily advised but I do)

Alex, I would like to just try this for a day or two and see what happens and if I lose the packet loss. Any chance I could get some tips on how to traffic shape, i started the Multi- LAN/WAN wizard in pfSense but there are so many options. I assume my setup would be simple but googling ICMP struggled to find a useful set of instructions to follow.

Comments re BQM TTL are interesting. What I could do instead is create my own BQM using a cloud server to ping my connection then with a longer TTL.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #196 on: October 17, 2020, 04:24:25 PM »

Oh crikey, its been ages since I set it up and I'm never 100% sure its all working correctly.  As I recall you can pretty much stick to the defaults, the important part is figuring out what figure to set for the bandwidth limit to reduce buffer bloat.

I actually just checked and it looks like I DON'T have it prioritised at the moment on the Zen line but do on Plusnet which is interesting as BQM does indicate less packet loss on the Plusnet line.

Once its setup you just add a Firewall rule to classify ICMP echo request from the WAN into one of the high priority queues (display advanced at the bottom of the page, last option is Queue).
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CarlT

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #197 on: October 17, 2020, 06:11:23 PM »

You can't QoS incoming pings only outgoing responses to them.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #198 on: October 17, 2020, 06:42:05 PM »

You're getting ping spikes under load because of bufferbloat.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #199 on: October 17, 2020, 11:19:18 PM »

You can't QoS incoming pings only outgoing responses to them.

Good point, although outgoing does at least stop them buffering in the router.

I've never understood how incoming QoS is supposed to do anything at all, seeing as techically it needs to be done on the fatter pipe BEFORE reaching your smaller one (the whole point of line profiles).  Yet I've seen it make a huge difference.
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daz4868

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #200 on: October 21, 2020, 11:26:21 AM »

Do you have a superhub 3/4? Its the chipset in modem mode that's the problem, simply can't handle processing UDP packets. There is no resolution you are just stuck, maybe call up VM and ask for a Superhub 2 which isn't affected. To test put the SH in router mode and double NAT yourself, you will see the high latency/packet loss spikes don't happen then.

Refs:
https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Speed/UDP-issues-on-SuperHub3-collective-thread/td-p/4382720?lightbox-message-images-4399795=157280i8A7E8A92741C3322
https://www.reddit.com/r/VirginMedia/comments/ihh30v/a_serious_udp_issue_on_sh34/
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 11:32:31 AM by daz4868 »
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Ronski

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #201 on: October 21, 2020, 01:29:50 PM »

I have pfSense and hub 3 in modem mode, currently no issues, even watched Iplayer last night just after nine. Probably doomed it now........


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Chrysalis

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #202 on: October 21, 2020, 04:19:17 PM »

Still looking good Ronski, a massive change from your ECI days having all that bandwidth.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #203 on: October 21, 2020, 04:49:14 PM »

Do you have a superhub 3/4? Its the chipset in modem mode that's the problem, simply can't handle processing UDP packets.

I'm confused how a modem can fail to handle UDP in bridge mode (where its merely acting as a switch) but handle them in NAT mode?  If anything, you'd expect the reverse.

Some pretty shoddy coding I guess.
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daz4868

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #204 on: October 21, 2020, 05:13:42 PM »

I'm confused how a modem can fail to handle UDP in bridge mode (where its merely acting as a switch) but handle them in NAT mode?  If anything, you'd expect the reverse.

Some pretty shoddy coding I guess.

I know right, hard to believe but its true... Also from my reading it appears to be a hardware defect otherwise surely Intel would have corrected it. More unbelievable is the Puma 7 used in the SH4 still has the same issue.

https://www.theregister.com/2017/04/27/intel_puma6_chipset_trivial_to_dos/
https://www.techpowerup.com/232517/intel-atom-based-puma-6-modem-chipset-has-severe-latency-issues-many-cable-modems-affected?cp=2
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #205 on: October 21, 2020, 07:14:10 PM »

I know right, hard to believe but its true... Also from my reading it appears to be a hardware defect otherwise surely Intel would have corrected it. More unbelievable is the Puma 7 used in the SH4 still has the same issue.

https://www.theregister.com/2017/04/27/intel_puma6_chipset_trivial_to_dos/
https://www.techpowerup.com/232517/intel-atom-based-puma-6-modem-chipset-has-severe-latency-issues-many-cable-modems-affected?cp=2

I knew one of the Puma chipsets had an issue but from what I heard it impacts EVERYTHING, not just bridge mode, and I could have sworn people said it WAS fixed in the newer SoC.
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j0hn

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #206 on: October 22, 2020, 12:18:04 PM »

The Hub 4 / Puma 7 definitely has the same or similar issues.

By the time Intel finally admitted the issues with the Puma 5 and 6 chipset they also admitted the Puma 7 was affected.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/08/intel-coughs-to-puma-cpu-flaw-that-hit-virgin-media-hub-3-router.html

Quote
After nearly two years Intel has finally published an advisory and formal CVE entry for a flaw in their Puma 5, 6 and 7 chipsets that resulted in various broadband ISP routers, such as Virgin Media UK’s Hub 3.0 (ARRIS TG2492S/CE), suffering from a mix of latency spikes and a DDoS security vulnerability.

It was never fixed. It's a hardware problem that was fudged with firmware.
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meritez

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Re: High packet loss on Virgin
« Reply #207 on: October 22, 2020, 03:48:09 PM »

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