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Author Topic: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic  (Read 850 times)

sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2020, 10:45:59 AM »

I wonder if it makes a difference if you are getting it direct from the source or via a CDN?

Not a topic (CDNs) that  I know anything about.  But I am with Zen and do seem to recall somebody (Alex?) recently mentioned CDN in relation to Zen...
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2020, 02:21:45 PM »

Not likely to notice a difference on Disney+ as it launched at a reduced rate.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/22/21189920/disney-plus-delayed-france-uk-streaming-reduce-quality-coronavirus

You must surely notice a difference on YouTube unless perhaps watching on a mobile phone.
Even I notice it on my phone though as I usually watch in 1440p where available.
Every single method of watching YouTube now defaults to 480p for me (TV, Android phone, Shield TV).

Netflix 4k may be unaffected. I only read reports of them reducing the HD streams.

Facebook and Prime video have also reduced stream quality across the EU, some not limited to the EU.

Glad to hear Disney+ is not normal quality as I thought its "4K" quality was pretty garbage.  I mean it doesn't look bad from a normal viewing distance, but definitely doesn't look 4K, up close its just postertised/compressed to hell.

YouTube on desktop seems unaffected, on my phone I noticed the 4K video on Auto went to 720p.

Only been watching Netflix on ShieldTV and 4K seemed normal, Titans which is HD seemed a little rough in places but that could be normal as some Netflix content just seems to get more aggressively compressed than others.  Although I did have a nagging feeling that when I started watching a couple of days ago it looked better.

I've forced ShieldTV to use Zen now, so lets see if that's any different.
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kitz

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2020, 11:47:54 PM »

Plusnet also sent out something similar last week

Quote
Our network
Our network is key to keeping you connected and is built to support the ‘evening peak’, when most of you are watching Netflix whilst doing the online shop, and the kids are on TikTok.
This roughly amounts to at least ten times the typical daytime demand, so we’re confident that we can keep you doing things you need to, when you want to do them.

What we can do to help you
We only sell unlimited broadband plans, so being online more is not a problem. You might have one of our older broadband plans with capped usage, but don’t worry you won’t get any additional data charges during this time. And we’ll let you know if this changes.
We know that the need to stay safe might mean some customers will face difficulties paying bills at the moment, especially those who run small businesses. If you get in touch we will try and help to make things a little easier to manage, and don’t worry if it takes a little longer to get through to us – calls to our customer service teams are free.

... and Vodafone have added extra capacity.

Quote
We have added extra capacity to our broadband and mobile networks to make sure they are in the best possible position to cope with any extra demand as more people work from home. Our networks are strong and robust, we’ve invested billions over the last five years to ensure they are the best they can be and as reliable as possible for you.
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kitz

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2020, 12:51:15 AM »

Not a topic (CDNs) that  I know anything about.  But I am with Zen and do seem to recall somebody (Alex?) recently mentioned CDN in relation to Zen...

Depends on the ISP's network and type.   

CDNs bring content nearer to the customer. So instead of streaming a movie all the way from California, its streamed (delivered) from a location near to the ISP's PoP.

All CDNs have a presence in London and since most ISPs have London gateways so there are no overseas transit costs for the SP.  It cuts out the routing normally done by the likes of Cogentco or Level3 etc. 
However transit costs are miniscule compared to Core, which in turn is cheaper than Backhaul.
   
Depending on network design; LLU, WBC & Dedicated WMBC ISPs can reduce some of their Core costs and could if they wished connect their northern customers to a CDN based in Manchester.

Benefit to the end user =  Faster delivery.
Benefit to the ISP = Large reduction in 3rd party Internet transit costs and possible reduction in Core costs
Benefit to the content provider = resiliency plus reduction in transit costs as the CDNs mirror the content around the globe.

----

CDNs are probably why there is less interest in multicast these days as it's not just the likes of Netflix that use them.  All the social media platforms, a large proportion of games and large websites do. 
My brother uses AWS Cloudfront CDN for his company because its massively scaleable and cuts down on their own origin server costs.   They just bump up the amount of AWS servers at certain times of the year to cope with demand... and then drop back again to their usual number during normal business weeks.   
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2020, 12:57:39 AM »

I haven't seen it today, but I have seen in the past a netflix cache inside Zen's network when looking at the NAT states on my router while watching Netflix.
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kitz

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2020, 01:15:50 AM »

Zen probably has a Netflix OCA.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2020, 08:47:48 AM »

Thanks for the explanations.

Can’t help thinking, if the word goes around that some ISPs are able to side-step Brussels restrictions on Netflix bitrates, these ISPs might suddenly become very popular.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2020, 09:08:07 AM »

If Netflix, YouTube, Apple TV and Amazon Prime Video hadn't already decreased the bit rates the increase would have been much more than 18% - no telling if Zen's network would still have been OK.
netflix have disabled the hidden menu now also, it allowed choosing the cdn server and bitrate
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johnson

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2020, 09:16:23 AM »

Can’t help thinking, if the word goes around that some ISPs are able to side-step Brussels restrictions on Netflix bitrates, these ISPs might suddenly become very popular.

Come again? Just because some discussion was had with the EU before this happened does not mean they were trying to make your bananas straight.  :D
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2020, 02:48:45 PM »

Well that was unexpected.

Code: [Select]
1  lo1.subs.bng1.wh-man.zen.net.uk (62.3.89.162)  6.179 ms  5.939 ms  5.853 ms
 2  ae5-161.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk (62.3.86.13)  5.899 ms  6.354 ms  6.309 ms
 3  vl-50.ph-0-4-3.cor1.manc1.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.58)  6.820 ms  14.548 ms  7.035 ms
 4  ae-2.pe1.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.34)  12.951 ms  15.520 ms  13.409 ms
 5  ae-2.cor1.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.3)  12.725 ms  44.010 ms  12.692 ms
 6  ae-15.agg1.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.28)  13.381 ms  15.750 ms  19.330 ms
 7  ldn-b9-link.telia.net (62.115.169.134)  12.295 ms  12.347 ms  12.535 ms
 8  ldn-bb3-link.telia.net (62.115.117.6)  12.458 ms  13.098 ms  13.189 ms
 9  ldn-b7-link.telia.net (62.115.138.151)  12.485 ms  12.131 ms  14.323 ms
10  * * *
11  * * *
12  4.7.1.138 (4.7.1.138)  80.812 ms  80.742 ms  80.772 ms
13  po300.es02.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net (23.246.60.103)  152.637 ms  152.738 ms  152.902 ms
14  po302.es02.nyc005.ix.nflxvideo.net (23.246.61.45)  149.958 ms  149.516 ms  149.430 ms
15  po306.es01.lhr005.ix.nflxvideo.net (23.246.61.141)  152.308 ms  152.658 ms  152.215 ms
16  ipv4_1.cxl0.c022.lhr005.ix.nflxvideo.net (45.57.0.146)  152.471 ms  152.287 ms  152.455 ms
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CarlT

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2020, 03:53:27 PM »

Haha!

Why are they using Telia transit to get to Netflix? Netflix have open peering policies?

Either severe capacity issues at their peering or they've messed up somewhere.

Either way I'm not that surprised Telia aren't peering with Netflix in the UK. They probably haven't a clue why anyone would use them to connect to Netflix when anyone can just connect directly either via a peering interface or a public peering LAN.
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kitz

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2020, 04:22:04 PM »

Where was you trying to trace?
Although Netflix may use CDN for their video content, they may not be using cloudfront and [web]site content is still hosted on their own local to them servers.   

I've even seen some sites which may use CDN for gaming content, cloudfront for some files, yet they may still have other files one their own server such as databases for game stats and the domain name which points to their own servers.

CDN is excellent for storage of large files, but not much use when it comes to dynamic content and it's useless for databases. 

Code: [Select]
Tracing route to netflix.co.uk [44.226.113.145]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    11 ms    10 ms    10 ms  250.core.plus.net [195.166.130.250]
  3    13 ms    12 ms    11 ms  84.93.253.83
  4    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  core1-be1.colindale.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.125.132]
  5    12 ms    22 ms    35 ms  peer7-et-4-0-1.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [194.72.16.122]
  6    13 ms    11 ms    12 ms  166-49-128-32.gia.bt.net [166.49.128.32]
  7    12 ms    13 ms    13 ms  hu0-6-0-4.ccr22.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.14.65]
  8    13 ms    12 ms    12 ms  be2869.ccr42.lon13.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.57.161]
  9    79 ms    80 ms    82 ms  be2101.ccr32.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.82.38]
 10    79 ms    79 ms    80 ms  be3600.ccr22.alb02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.0.221]
 11    91 ms    90 ms    89 ms  be2879.ccr22.cle04.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.29.173]
 12   103 ms    96 ms    96 ms  be2718.ccr42.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.7.129]
 13   122 ms   127 ms   127 ms  be2832.ccr22.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.169]
 14   119 ms   120 ms   121 ms  be3036.ccr22.den01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.31.89]
 15   135 ms   135 ms   134 ms  be3038.ccr32.slc01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.42.97]
 16   146 ms   149 ms   148 ms  be3110.ccr22.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.141]
 17   167 ms   164 ms   162 ms  be3670.ccr41.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.43.14]
 18   147 ms   146 ms   146 ms  38.88.224.218
 19     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 20     *        *     ^C
 
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Weaver

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2020, 05:29:44 PM »

I tried a traceroute to the last domain name I could see in the Alex’s list and I went to the USA! Don’t know what on earth is going on there.

traceroute to ipv4_1.cxl0.c022.lhr005.ix.nflxvideo.net  (45.57.0.146), 30 hops max, 56 byte packets
 1  sent:22 loss:0% last:2.707 ms avg:2.632 ms
    firebrick (81.187.147.254)
 2  sent:22 loss:0% last:42.082 ms avg:44.733 ms
    221.53.155.90.in-addr.arpa (90.155.53.221)
 3  sent:22 loss:0% last:41.697 ms avg:49.856 ms
    g.aimless.thn.aa.net.uk (90.155.53.47)
 4  sent:21 loss:0% last:47.395 ms avg:54.155 ms
    ge-4-3-6.edge5.London1.Level3.net (195.50.116.49)
 5  sent:21 loss:95.2% last:186.478 ms avg:186.478 ms
    ae-1-3502.ear2.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.69.148.33)
 6  sent:21 loss:0% last:166.446 ms avg:112.971 ms
    4.7.1.138
 7  sent:21 loss:0% last:172.795 ms avg:180.518 ms
    po300.es02.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net (23.246.60.103)
 8  sent:21 loss:0% last:197.145 ms avg:178.304 ms
    po302.es02.nyc005.ix.nflxvideo.net (23.246.61.45)
 9  sent:21 loss:0% last:177.37 ms avg:184.413 ms
    po306.es01.lhr005.ix.nflxvideo.net (23.246.61.141)
10  sent:21 loss:0% last:242.003 ms avg:181.522 ms
    ipv4_1.cxl0.c022.lhr005.ix.nflxvideo.net (45.57.0.146)


And something that is probably a waste of time completely:

traceroute to netflix.co.uk (46.137.171.215), 30 hops max, 56 byte packets
 1  sent:4 loss:0% last:2.343 ms avg:2.299 ms
    firebrick (81.187.147.254)
 2  sent:4 loss:0% last:35.935 ms avg:67.962 ms
    221.53.155.90.in-addr.arpa (90.155.53.221)
 3  sent:4 loss:0% last:38.798 ms avg:89.563 ms
    p-aimless.thn.aa.net.uk (90.155.53.108)
 4  sent:4 loss:0% last:89.215 ms avg:61.135 ms
    99.82.180.58
 5  sent:4 loss:0% last:40.27 ms avg:45.005 ms
    54.239.101.50
 6  sent:4 loss:0% last:40.418 ms avg:75.085 ms
    54.239.101.65
 7  sent:4 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
 8  sent:4 loss:0% last:65.172 ms avg:105.336 ms
    52.93.128.246
 9  sent:4 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
10  sent:4 loss:0% last:52.608 ms avg:99.725 ms
    52.93.6.230
11  sent:4 loss:0% last:47.379 ms avg:77.759 ms
    52.93.101.29
12  sent:4 loss:0% last:53.316 ms avg:52.031 ms
    52.93.101.52
13  sent:4 loss:0% last:61.404 ms avg:65.921 ms
    52.93.7.109
14  sent:4 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
15  sent:4 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
16  sent:3 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
17  sent:3 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
18  sent:3 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms


and

traceroute to netflix.com (34.250.41.147), 30 hops max, 56 byte packets
 1  sent:22 loss:0% last:3.024 ms avg:2.225 ms
    firebrick (81.187.147.254)
 2  sent:22 loss:0% last:37.618 ms avg:45.219 ms
    221.53.155.90.in-addr.arpa (90.155.53.221)
 3  sent:22 loss:0% last:44.834 ms avg:56.946 ms
    p-aimless.thn.aa.net.uk (90.155.53.108)
 4  sent:22 loss:0% last:39.827 ms avg:54.419 ms
    99.82.180.58
 5  sent:22 loss:0% last:37.533 ms avg:44.072 ms
    54.239.101.30
 6  sent:22 loss:0% last:38.952 ms avg:45.468 ms
    150.222.65.3
 7  sent:22 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
 8  sent:22 loss:0% last:53.818 ms avg:62.101 ms
    52.93.128.216
 9  sent:21 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
10  sent:21 loss:0% last:54.952 ms avg:60.839 ms
    52.93.6.214
11  sent:21 loss:0% last:54.099 ms avg:58.132 ms
    52.93.101.31
12  sent:21 loss:0% last:56.136 ms avg:52.995 ms
    52.93.101.62
13  sent:21 loss:0% last:48.275 ms avg:51.663 ms
    52.93.7.127
14  sent:21 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
15  sent:21 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
16  sent:21 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
17  sent:21 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms
18  sent:21 loss:100% last:0 ms avg:0 ms

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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2020, 05:47:25 PM »

Haha!

Why are they using Telia transit to get to Netflix? Netflix have open peering policies?

Either severe capacity issues at their peering or they've messed up somewhere.

Either way I'm not that surprised Telia aren't peering with Netflix in the UK. They probably haven't a clue why anyone would use them to connect to Netflix when anyone can just connect directly either via a peering interface or a public peering LAN.

Yeah I don't understand what is going on there.  Some glitch with me using Unbound for full name resolution maybe?

I might have to switch back to Cloudflare DNSoTLS as that seemed to (somehow) work fine seeing Zens cache.

Ah, there we go:
Code: [Select]
1  losubs.subs.bng1.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.80.17)  13.051 ms  20.377 ms  14.863 ms
 2  ae1-177.cr2.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.80.38)  22.324 ms  13.685 ms  13.568 ms
 3  vl-50.ae-5.pe2.thn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.54)  13.698 ms  34.108 ms  35.241 ms
 4  ae-1.pe2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.97)  13.954 ms  14.288 ms  13.760 ms
 5  ae-14.cor1.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.27)  14.325 ms  14.676 ms  13.755 ms
 6  ae-15.agg1.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.28)  14.336 ms  14.328 ms  14.367 ms
 7  netflix-cache1.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.80.10)  13.849 ms  13.407 ms  13.862 ms

Its HD but the bitrate seems to be a bit p00.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 06:11:51 PM by Alex Atkin UK »
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Weaver

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Re: Zen bandwidth usage during pandemic
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2020, 06:32:37 PM »

@Alex how did you discover the correct destination address to traceroute to?
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