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Author Topic: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)  (Read 35310 times)

sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #585 on: July 14, 2020, 05:25:48 PM »

His prediction was actually wider at 63-136,00. Not really any more use for planning than a sheer guess.

https://www.nature.com/articles/35020688?proof=trueMay

I'm not so sure it's useless.   At some levels, they may have found it useful that he was predicting, with stated confidence, that no more than 136,000 were likely to die.  That's better than having absolutely no idea how many might die, even if combined with the possibility that hardly anybody may also die.

Having trouble digging up the numbers I thought the increase to circa 150k came later, in the context of possible spread to sheep.  No matter though, happy to run with 136k.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #586 on: July 15, 2020, 06:03:17 PM »

I don’t like linking to ITV news any more than any other media channel.  But making an exception to my own rule,  this might be interesting...

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-07-15/positive-news-is-coming-on-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-writes-robert-peston
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #587 on: July 15, 2020, 11:43:17 PM »

Still ‘just the newspapers’, but looking even more promising.   The Telegraph is paywalled, but disabling javascript seems to make the paywall go away.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/
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chenks

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #588 on: July 17, 2020, 02:46:03 PM »

significant return to normality by christmas he says, this guy truly is a moron.
we'll have another lockdown by the end of year.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #589 on: July 17, 2020, 03:15:07 PM »

significant return to normality by christmas he says, this guy truly is a moron.
we'll have another lockdown by the end of year.

I share your scepticism.

Still, while it remains a long shot, nobody is yet ruling out the Oxford’s ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine being available in September.   It’s already in volume manufacture so it can be quickly rolled out if the trials prove, with sufficient confidence that  it’s safe and it works.  An announcement is expected on Monday, maybe Boris has has seen a preview?

Some are calling for a change in the rules to allow young, low risk vaccine volunteers to be deliberately infected, which might speed up the trials  enormously.   Not sure where I stand on that one, morally. :-\
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #590 on: July 17, 2020, 04:40:34 PM »

Some are calling for a change in the rules to allow young, low risk vaccine volunteers to be deliberately infected, which might speed up the trials  enormously.   Not sure where I stand on that one, morally. :-\

Sounds rather dodgy, seeing as it would be impossible to test for every single possible trigger of the virus, seeing as were still not 100% sure exactly why some people are more susceptible than others.   There has been the odd young person with no prior conditions who reacted badly to the virus, if they were unlucky enough to find that person they would be up p00 creek without a paddle.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #591 on: July 17, 2020, 05:07:58 PM »

Sounds rather dodgy, seeing as it would be impossible to test for every single possible trigger of the virus, seeing as were still not 100% sure exactly why some people are more susceptible than others.   There has been the odd young person with no prior conditions who reacted badly to the virus, if they were unlucky enough to find that person they would be up p00 creek without a paddle.

Agreed it's dodgy and as I say, I can't make my mind up whether I like it, glad it's not my mind that matters.    But it's supported by scientists with impressive CVs, including several Nobel laureates.  I think I read that AstraZeneca have indicated they'd consider testing the Oxford vaccine that way, if allowed to do so.

At the end of the day the risk for healthy young people is not zero, but it is damn close to zero.  Linking to BBC for once...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53426367

And also, the link within that page, if you feel like volunteering yourself.  :o

https://1daysooner.org
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #592 on: July 17, 2020, 07:02:45 PM »

Considering I got chest pain from the TESCO equivalent of Dettol, don't think I will get involved.  Then again, I'm not young either, well maybe mentally.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #593 on: July 17, 2020, 09:51:39 PM »

I won’t  be volunteering and I doubt they’d accept me anyway.   But even after the trials are complete I think my own main worry would be... whether to trust a vaccine that had been rushed?

An obvious risk is that the protection of the vaccine wears off with time, or the virus mutates to avoid the vaccine.   And that would disappointing enough but I believe there’s been precedents whereby, in those kind of scenarios, the subsequent infection is sometimes worse than if no vaccine had been given.

Still, the minute they start rolling out a vaccine that has the backing of enough respectable scientists to say it works and is safe I’ll be out there, queuing all night if necessary, to be at the front of the queue.
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Chrysalis

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #594 on: July 17, 2020, 10:06:18 PM »

So, local lockdown for Leicester, seems to be a fact     It will be very interesting to see how successfully it can be managed as I don’t think there’s much doubt there will be similar local outbreaks elsewhere in future.

Worrying that even a couple of days ago, the Mayor of Leicester, a former MP, seemed to be resisting and playing it down somewhat.   Then again, I keep saying we shouldn’t believe anything we read or see on news media, so who knows what discussions really took place.

Sympathies and thoughts to all who are affected, by the lockdown or by the virus itself.

I am only going to make one post on this, as I know I might upset some people with my thoughts been a supposed CT.

I have read the document issued by public health england in June, it shows the data for Leicester and some other areas leading up to the local lockdown.

It shows the following.

Leicester had a rising number of cases (R above 1 slightly).  However other LA's it was compared to had very similar R ratings, with also rising cases.  So this wouldnt justsify it been picked out.
Leicester had a higher then average amount of cases per 10k population, and per test, the per 10k population is the one that was triple over the 2nd highest area, the per test was only a bit higher.
The wards showing the increase in case count are the one's near the mobile test centre's the wards with no access to test centre's show low static numbers. (including my ward).
The author of the document, acknowledged the high test count per 10k was very likely down to the high levels of testing.  However obviously that didnt account for the higher than average case per test.

The BBC has had many articles quoting ministers claiming Leicester has a triple infection rate vs the second highest area, this is inaccurate, I dont know if this deliberate misinformation from the government or someone has just messed up.  I have been in touch with east midlands BBC over the past 2 weeks and they have finally read the document, and said they going to put it on a radio show for discussion, I asked about correcting the national news, they said that will only happen if its deemed newsworthy enough.

The problem been is they havent normalised the data to take into account for the amount of testing, the amount of testing in Leicester right now is at insane levels, door to door testing, able to use walk in testing with no symptoms, and on top of that the testing is been concentrated in the hotspots, its in effect a manipulated system in terms of the results.  There is 12 mobile testing units in the entire country and 8 of them are in Leicester.

Also we have the lockdown borders, these appear to be political.  Leicester has one of the weakest economies in the Country, the city is very Labour dominant.  So the political and economical damage of lockdown is minimal.  Most people are only concerned with their own well being.  A couple of tory areas are been released from lockdown on the 18th, when you look at the borders drawn up its nonsense, they are deciding if you in lockdown based on who the council is, not the proximity to a hotspot or actual infection rates.  Meanwhile the football ground is still able to host football games and children (super spreaders) have been authorised to go back to school on the 24th.

I know it sounds CT, but the source of my data is a government document, as to why they want to keep an entire city in lockdown when only small parts of it have hotspots? I think its a social experiment, and also to send a warning to other LA's that if they dont be proactive in tackling hotspots the government may lock them down, we are the example.  They are now doing extreme levels of testing which will be probably be useful data for PHE, as it was always an unknown as to how many people with symptoms are carriers, all this testing provides that data, in addition they are able to test public reaction to local lockdown's.  Next week there is a law been passed allowing them to forcefully prevent people from travelling (this is the one I hate), and shop closures etc.  It is funny these laws were not passed during national lockdown.

Resident of the city are approaching 5 months of lockdown.

Now what about the reason for the hot spots?

Leicester as I said is a very deprived city, it has high levels of immigration population, lots of low paid workers, over crowded housing (very extreme housing problems in the city, worst in the country), and sweatshop garment factories.  So far according to public data, there has been very little action to target any of these things, the only thing that is been done is extreme levels of testing, the testing will find people who have covid, but it wont prevent spread.  No factories have been shutdown, very few have even been visited, nothing is been done about over crowded housing, and very little action against unauthorised shops.   The emphasis seems to be just on testing and passing future laws to prevent people from leaving the city.

In addition no financial schemes have been extended for this extended lockdown.  People cannot get back on furlough e.g if they were taken off it.

I am attaching a graph as to what I think is happening.

Yellow area = population, red line = unconfirmed cases (considered clean), purple area and line = confirmd cases via pillar B testing (lots of this in Leicester), black line Pillar A cases (hospital testing), simply put I think Leicester has a bit higher cases, but most of this 300% amount is just more of the unconfirmed cases becoming confirmed.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 10:11:57 PM by Chrysalis »
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #595 on: July 17, 2020, 10:41:47 PM »

@Chrysalis, as you are the OP I hope you won’t be offended by a suggestion.

The political theories peppered in this thread are fascinating.   But I wonder if it is worth starting a ‘sister’ thread for opportunities to draw attention to perceived government incompetence, or Govt/media cover ups?

I just think it would be really, really, nice if this thread could be allowed to focus purely on the scientific facts and research.  How about a rule... if we can’t cite an academic/scientific source for our contribution, it would be better to post in the sister political thread?

Edited to clarify that Chrysalis, not I, was OP.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 11:34:42 PM by sevenlayermuddle »
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #596 on: July 18, 2020, 05:43:32 AM »

That's very interesting, especially as Sheffield is still only testing those with symptoms and I believe we only have two mobile testing centres.

We could very well be top in the country if tested on the same level as Leicester, I would not be at all surprised.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #597 on: July 18, 2020, 08:50:05 AM »

The increased testing in Leicester appears  to me to be a response to the statistical rise in cases.    The rise came first, followed by increased testing.

The reports I saw were talking about the shape of the curve, rather than the number of cases.  25% of cases within two weeks, and that was before they stepped up testing.  Hancock mention it at briefing, and BBC covered it on 20th June - 10 days before the new lockdown.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53120589

Quote
A mobile coronavirus testing site has been set up in Leicester city centre following a surge in cases.

It makes perfects sense to me that if you want to monitor the shape of the curve, you test as much as possible.  It does then get harder to compare Leicester with other towns, but it is easier to compare Leicester this week with Leicester Last week which, I’d assume, is what’s needed to decide when lockdown can be relaxed.

I have the impression the Mayor is being less than frank.  I know Wikipedia can’t be trusted, but his Wiki page at present...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Soulsby

Quote
Following his refusal to follow UK government law on lockdown[3] during the COVID-19 global health pandemic, there have been calls for his resignation.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #598 on: July 20, 2020, 09:08:44 AM »

Good news day?

The world awaits publication of Oxford vaccine trials results, to appear in The Lancet.. :fingers:

https://www.indiatvnews.com/science/oxford-covid-19-vaccine-trial-result-data-to-be-published-coronavirus-vaccine-update-635538


New treatment.   Needs further trials and peer review, but industry seems excited and company’s share price has nearly trebled this morning.  :fingers:

http://www.pharmatimes.com/news/synairgens_sng001_shows_strong_promise_in_covid-19_trial_1345119
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #599 on: July 20, 2020, 09:44:59 AM »

Still comes back to what was mentioned before though, how do we know these vaccines work if nobody has been infected yet to see what happens?
Also, how long does the protection last?
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