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Author Topic: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)  (Read 35124 times)

sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #540 on: June 26, 2020, 10:21:56 AM »

lets look at Kazakhstan then.

Kazakhstan is a transcontinental country largely located in Central Asia with the most western parts of it being located in Eastern Europe.
the key word there is "transcontinental".

same for Azerbaijan.

Armenia are part of UEFA and are considered european in terms or sport, even though it's technically in the asian continent. they are in the Eurasian Economic Union as are Kyrgyzstan

Ah I see, thanks for that.  I should have confessed that as well as failing Geography O-level, I’ve also been ignorant my entire life of all things related to Sports. :)

I remain of the opinion that it was slightly deceptive and potentially unhelpful to the community, for a major UK media channel, who I’ll not name as the name seems to generate hostility, to use these countries to justify a headline

“Coronavirus: 'Very significant' resurgences in Europe alarm WHO”.

Of the fuller list, of countries more familiar to me, they even included Sweden.   Sweden is interesting as they’ve hardly had any prevention measures, depending to a much larger extent than others on Herd Immunity.  I’ve been fascinated by their graphs and have no idea if they might eventually regret that. But, either way, doesn’t it become a pretty irrelevant statistical comparison with UK?
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chenks

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #541 on: June 26, 2020, 10:33:51 AM »

irrelevant in what way?

ignoring your obvious anti-BBC agenda and your total ignornance about anything they "report", surely even you can understand that if restrictions getting eased sees an increase in infection rate then that is relevant to the UK who have just eased (too far IMO) restrictions? we should be looking at, and reporting about every country to see what happens if they are ahead of us in the process.

look at what has just happened with the beaches when there is a sniff of being allowed out again. people are morons. where is the preferred 2m rule being applied here (which is actually still in affect even though 1m is technically being allowed).

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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #542 on: June 26, 2020, 11:02:52 AM »

irrelevant in what way?

ignoring your obvious anti-BBC agenda and your total ignornance about anything they "report", surely even you can understand that if restrictions getting eased sees an increase in infection rate then that is relevant to the UK who have just eased (too far IMO) restrictions? we should be looking at, and reporting about every country to see what happens if they are ahead of us in the process.

look at what has just happened with the beaches when there is a sniff of being allowed out again. people are morons. where is the preferred 2m rule being applied here (which is actually still in affect even though 1m is technically being allowed).

Of course there's a risk in relaxing lockdown,  the advisors at Boris' daily briefings made no secret of that.  Personally, I'll deal with it by remaining in my own personal lockdown.  There's a few local parks I can use, as you have to book a slot in advance to get in so every visitor has probably about a half acre to themselves.  Otherwise it remains as before, Tesco home delivery and a daily walk around the village.

I certainly agree that the facts about what is happening elsewhere are very relevant.  I took comfort that our own Epidemic trailed a few weeks behind some of the others, potentially allowing lessons to be learned from others' relaxations.  And on that point, the BBC article (sorry, flameproof coat at the ready), despite the sensationalist headline went go on to clarify, more helpfully

Quote
Dr Kluge said countries such as Poland, Germany, Spain and Israel had responded quickly to dangerous outbreaks associated with schools, coal mines, and food production settings, and brought them under control through rapid interventions.

Despite warning about resurgences, he said the WHO anticipated that the situation would calm down further in the majority of countries over the summer.

Kluge then went on to comment in conclusion that Autumn may present new challenges.
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Weaver

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #543 on: June 26, 2020, 11:21:38 AM »

@Ronski I’m sorry to hear your brother hasn’t been working. I too have not been working for many years now. My best wishes to him, to you and yours.
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Ronski

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #544 on: June 26, 2020, 03:59:00 PM »

Thanks Weaver, he's had bad health for most his life, which also means he can't get a full time job so works when he can as a self employed painter and decorator. Whilst he is good at what he does his interpersonal and management skills are lacking. So he's always struggling with money, always in debt and always needs help, but it just won't sink in (at the age of 50 you would think it would) that if he spent money wisely he'd get himself out of debt and actually have more money. Instead he spends a few quid here, a few quid there on items he really doesn't need and it all adds, but a large chunk of the world's population is like that, you only have to look at the people complaining they've got no money to buy food but driving expensive cars etc and then expecting governments and charities to bail them out because they splashed out instead of saving for a rainy day.
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j0hn

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #545 on: June 26, 2020, 04:30:41 PM »

It's not the BBC who are claiming those are European countries.
The BBC correctly reported them as part of the "WHO's European region".

https://www.euro.who.int/en/countries

The beaches appeared to me to be as busy as the media made out.

I don't see the problem in using a picture that backs up the story.
I wouldn't expect them to use a picture that makes beaches look less crowded.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #546 on: June 26, 2020, 05:27:45 PM »

Picking the right lens to give a fair representation must be tricky.  It would kinda make sense that if you're trying to show that there are a lot of people, you'd want as many people in the shot as possible so pick the lens accordingly, which might in turn make it look like they are closer together than they really hard.

I don't think there is really a perfect compromise.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #547 on: June 26, 2020, 05:56:25 PM »

The other factor at play in choice of lens is that the reporters, if they share my feelings about crowds wrt Coronavirus, would want to distance themselves from these crowds.   They might then have no choice but to use long lenses.  For avoidance of doubt, that’s a concession from me that even though the long lenses might be emphasising the density, I don’t think the media are necessarily being deliberately manipulative in this instance. :)

But I think we need to move on, else this long and interesting thread will become just become bogged down as another BBC thread.  Happy to let John’s recent post have the last word on the BBC aspect. :)

So (hopefully!) moving on...
...I noticed the other day that Bupa are actually offering antibody tests for £65, if anybody is interested.   They seem to be a step ahead of the others as, rather than a diy kit, the sample is taken by one of their own ‘clinicians’.

https://www.bupa.co.uk/health/payg/covid-testing

Personally I’m not that tempted, as the clinician sounds to me like a pretty intimate encounter by the standards of social distancing.  I’d rather avoid such contacts unless medically required, and for me getting tested is not a medical requirement, just a curiosity. :(
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #548 on: June 30, 2020, 10:12:30 AM »

So, local lockdown for Leicester, seems to be a fact     It will be very interesting to see how successfully it can be managed as I don’t think there’s much doubt there will be similar local outbreaks elsewhere in future.

Worrying that even a couple of days ago, the Mayor of Leicester, a former MP, seemed to be resisting and playing it down somewhat.   Then again, I keep saying we shouldn’t believe anything we read or see on news media, so who knows what discussions really took place.

Sympathies and thoughts to all who are affected, by the lockdown or by the virus itself.
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chenks

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #549 on: June 30, 2020, 11:11:25 AM »

i refer you to reply 525
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24502.msg418378.html#msg418378

but hey, people needed to get on the beaches and demonstrate in support of BLM.
IMO the whole BLM needs to take a back seat until COVID is no longer an issue. Earth Lives Matter!
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Weaver

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #550 on: June 30, 2020, 11:13:09 AM »

The doctor came out to see me yesterday because I was vomiting. She was wearing all kinds of gear and my wife Janet wore a face mask while the doctor was with me and Janet. Weird, it’s the first time I have seen the full gear as I haven’t been out of the house nor met anyone coming to the house since the pandemic began. I’m thinking my current illness has been due to constipation caused by all the drugs I’m on. Also my blood pressure is very high, so Janet tells me, after measuring it.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #551 on: June 30, 2020, 11:40:12 AM »

i refer you to reply 525
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24502.msg418378.html#msg418378

but hey, people needed to get on the beaches and demonstrate in support of BLM.
IMO the whole BLM needs to take a back seat until COVID is no longer an issue. Earth Lives Matter!

Chenks, I agree.  Beach crowds, political protests, and football supporting mobs are all worrying.   But have you found any evidence that beaches and BLM protests are behind the Leicester outbreak?   It seems unlikely to me, especially beaches as I think Leicester is about as *far as you can get from any part of the coast.  But I’d be interested to see any facts and figures (excluding ‘facts’ from journalists).

Short of a full and permanent national lockdown, which is obviously not an option, I don’t see how local outbreaks can be avoided - no matter how well we all behave.  What matters, it seems to me, is whether they can successfully be contained and suppressed.

*checking my facts, I see there are other places further from the sea than Leicester, so don’t take me too literally.


@Weaver, sorry to hear you’re poorly.   But I wonder if the blood pressure may have been affected by the doctor in all that gear?  I”m overdue a blood pressure check myself and not looking forwards to it as  I’ve repeatedly been told I get ‘white coat syndrome’ at the best of times, whereby my BP shoots up when measured  by a doctor.
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chenks

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #552 on: June 30, 2020, 12:10:11 PM »

outbreaks can be avoided simply by proper social distancing.
if you are not close to another person and do the appropriate cleaning then you limit any potential outbreaks.

if an outbreak has occured then it simply means people have been in contact with others when they shouldn't have been.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #553 on: June 30, 2020, 01:33:56 PM »

I’m not sure it’s that simple, Chenks.   Neither you (I assume?) nor I am scientific experts, but my impression is that the consensus of experts is that, post lockdown, things will need to kept under control by tracking and tracing, but that occasional local outbreaks are to be expected and will require effective local measures to control them.   I’ve not seen any expert suggesting that new outbreaks can be avoided altogether, without further complete lockdowns.

I’ve seen the WHO recently quoted as having singled out Germany, Poland, Spain and Israel, praising them for effective responses to local outbreaks in schools, coal mines and factories.  Admittedly that’s just press reports so may be complete fiction, but the message from all experts in all regions seems to have been pretty unanimous, that further local outbreaks are inevitable.  Nobody should depend on them not happening, such a policy would be pretty flawed.
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chenks

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Re: The Coronavirus (COVID-19)
« Reply #554 on: June 30, 2020, 01:47:42 PM »

and how do these local outbreaks occur? by not complying with social distancing.
if you don't come into close enough contact with another person and follow the correct hygene instructions then your chances of catching anything (never mind covid-19) are extremely low.

but i guess standing in a massive queue to get into primark, or sitting on the beach is far more important.
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