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[niemand]

With all due no-one cares what you think about whether the virus can go airborne given you have no scientific background in the field.

The UK has never had full freedom of speech. We aren't the United States and have no first amendment.

This really a hill you want to die on?

[sevenlayermuddle]

One hope I’m clinging too is that, after all this, we’ll learn to leave science to the scientists.   

Science no longer influenced by ratings-conscious TV channels or attention-seeking celebrities.  And public opinion or mass demonstrations of lay people/children being deemed irrelevant to the conclusions of scientific research.

Science just as it should be, based purely on genuine research.  I can dream.

[Chrysalis]

With all due no-one cares what you think about whether the virus can go airborne given you have no scientific background in the field.

The UK has never had full freedom of speech. We aren't the United States and have no first amendment.

This really a hill you want to die on?

Not really, but if no one cared, there wouldnt be any censoring.

I have been in lots of healthy discussions about this stuff, but its a bit heavy handed when someone steps in and says this is how it is anyone who says otherwise I will stuff your mouth.

My opinion is based on scientists themselves and evidence, nothing other than that really.

As always its about selective evidence, if you want to form an official stance, you pick and choose which scientists agree with it, and use them as the basis of it, when it could have easily been done the other way as well.  Did you forget the open letter from scientists to the government some weeks back.

[sevenlayermuddle]

I recall an open letter from campaigners including some doctors to the government, egged on by social media campaigns, some weeks back.   Being brutally honest, doctors are usually not scientists.

Technically I am a scientist myself, as I have a Bachelor of Science degree.  But I don’t regard an electronics engineer such as myself as qualified to comment upon this pandemic, any more than I regard my GP as qualified to comment.

Leave it to those who are qualified.

[Alex Atkin UK]

One hope I’m clinging too is that, after all this, we’ll learn to leave science to the scientists.   

Science no longer influenced by ratings-conscious TV channels or attention-seeking celebrities.  And public opinion or mass demonstrations of lay people/children being deemed irrelevant to the conclusions of scientific research.

Science just as it should be, based purely on genuine research.  I can dream.

To be fair, the mass demonstrations of children HAS been based on the governments ignoring the science.

[sevenlayermuddle]

To be fair, the mass demonstrations of children HAS been based on the governments ignoring the science.

And the children are scientifically qualified to make that judgement?

[Alex Atkin UK]

And the children are scientifically qualified to make that judgement?

When the scientists say "we need to do x right now or were screwed" and the governments say "were doing y by this date" and the two conflict, then you don't need a PHD to make that distinction.

How is it any different to the NHS claiming they need more money, the government saying were giving it to them when the figures clearly prove they are not?

Are you seriously suggesting that people should do nothing unless they work in that field?  Nothing ever would change with that attitude!

You could make the same claim about 99% of what is said on this forum/site, most of us aren't experts in the technology but it doesn't mean we can't see when something is wrong.

[sevenlayermuddle]

When the scientists say "we need to do x right now or were screwed" and the governments say "were doing y by this date" and the two conflict, then you don't need a PHD to make that distinction.

Personally, if these circumstances were to arise, first thing I’d do is look into the qualifications of the scientists that are saying we’re screwed.  Before taking sides,  I’d want to look at their CVs, academic careers.   I’d want to also look into voices of dissent, and at the qualifications of dissenters.

It is then possible, I agree, that I might form the opinion myself that we are probably screwed, and I might start encouraging government to think about unscrewing us.   But how can children make up their minds which scientists are to be trusted and which not?

This is relevant to SARS-CoV-2.   I’d not be surprised if scientific opinion started to diverge, leaving governments to decide which scientists to believe.   There’s then the same danger, that the choice of paths is made based on public opinion and best chances of getting re-elected, which is the least scientific approach of all.

[Alex Atkin UK]

Did get some good news today.  Despite what the GP surgery said, mum got both an e-mail from Sainsburys saying they were informed she is vulnerable, plus the GP letter.

So it seems the criteria is NOT as limited as the online documentation implies after all.

[sevenlayermuddle]

Did get some good news today.  Despite what the GP surgery said, mum got both an e-mail from Sainsburys saying they were informed she is vulnerable, plus the GP letter.

So it seems the criteria is NOT as limited as the online documentation implies after all.

I appreciate that will be a load off your mind, glad to hear it. 

[Chrysalis]

Did get some good news today.  Despite what the GP surgery said, mum got both an e-mail from Sainsburys saying they were informed she is vulnerable, plus the GP letter.

So it seems the criteria is NOT as limited as the online documentation implies after all.

I think there is a way onto these lists outside of the criteria, I got a sms saying similar last week from the gov, although as of yet nothing from the supermarkets, I guess I just need to wait though as is likely a time lag.

I spoke to my GP a short while back who told me he would help me, then days later I had that sms.

[sevenlayermuddle]

I think there is a way onto these lists outside of the criteria, I got a sms saying similar last week from the gov, although as of yet nothing from the supermarkets, I guess I just need to wait though as is likely a time lag.

I spoke to my GP a short while back who told me he would help me, then days later I had that sms.

Have you registered with Sainsburys and Ocado?    Whereas most supermarkets just mutter vague hints about priority lists, these two are quite explicit, telling me categorically that I am not on the lists - which is true, in my case.

[jelv]

To be fair, the mass demonstrations of children HAS been based on the governments ignoring the science.

And the children are scientifically qualified to make that judgement?

That is a typical ignorant response! The campaign by young people has specifically been saying we don't have the knowledge to make that judgement but we recognise that scientists who work in the relevant fields do. And the almost unanimous opinion of those scientists is that unless we make radical changes we are in deep, deep trouble and it is the lives of the young people who are going to be affected most. Meantime the adults are ignoring the science because the economic consequences will cost them too much now. They don't care that the economic consequences in 20 or 30 years time will be way more because we were slow to act because they'll mostly have died by then.

The whole world is driven by profits NOW with no thought to the long term consequences. The young people have every right to be angry!

[sevenlayermuddle]

I only mentioned the children because I hope we don’t see an equivalent interference of lay people and children taking it upon themselves to tell government how to deal with Covid-19.

And I do very much hope that we don’t, and I hope that their teachers and parents are drumming that into them... “leave it to the scientists, no matter what you see on social media”.

[jelv]

Isn't the White House briefing led every day by someone who thinks he knows better than the scientists? 

Edit: And his biggest concern is to get the economy restarted.