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Author Topic: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53  (Read 1351 times)

Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2020, 06:39:19 PM »

Why are Zen insisting when they check that there is no crosstalk?

and if the fallback isn't being reached is that cause for SFI2 to do anything

What about the possibility that when OR were in my street for 5 days (diff engineer each time)  in  a row or even previously swapped over the line to another address in my street (or is this just frustration paranoia)

I don't know, an ISP has zero knowledge of crosstalk, its not something I believe even Openreach think about that much as that's what DLM is for.
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Exchange: INTAKE (ECI DSLAM) Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) ISP/Modems: Zen (Home Hub 5A running OpenWrt) + Plusnet (VMG-3925-B10B) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD

kitz

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2020, 07:13:43 PM »

Why are Zen insisting when they check that there is no crosstalk?

Zen are probably referring to the GEA Service Test run by Openreach which looks for obvious signs of REIN, Bridge Taps and Cross Talk based on your line stats, Hlog and QLN.
They will pick up very obvious and acute instances of certain tyes of errors depending upon steepness and repetitiveness of plotted curves.   

As regards to Cross-talk, there are 3 types of crosstalk: NeXT, FeXT and Alien noise.

Most of the reduction of speed over time on FTTC is due to FeXT.  Its sometimes often hard to see on QLN graphs and can take a trained eye to spot, because it usually causes a very shallow dish like effect in the bit load graph.   If you have a neighbouring line using similar tones to you, then you will both likely be using the same frequencies so nothing that much obvious shows in the graphs.   You spot it most when they go off line or resync as its effect is a rapid change in the SNRM.  It's easier to see crosstalk from neighbouring adsl lines as the dip tends to bottom  out where the adsl reach tones ends. 
FeXT affects the shortest loops the most...  and this is very true when it comes to what we mean when we talk about crosstalk.   Those lines which previously syc'd at 80Mbps are the ones which lose the most speed to crosstalk.

NeXT (nearend) is usually very local - its the 'home end' eg in your own cabling/copper pair. I'm not certain on this, but I 'think' it's NeXT that the GEA test picks up on.   

I most definitely am badly affected by crosstalk, yet the GEA test always shows "Not Detected" for Crosstalk.   
There is nothing Openreach can do about FeXT (bar using vectored DSLAMs), so if you are affected then its just bad luck.

I'm quite happy if for you to go back to Zen and say that the GEA test doesn't detect FeXT (Far End Crosstalk) because its true.   But then again there's stuff all they can do about it either :(
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How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

kitz

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2020, 07:34:23 PM »

Well supposedly as  according to every engineer that has ever been here the story goes  in the 70s they skimped on the quality when they re did them. I know the line from pole to my house is copper,  pole is only 20 yards from my front door if that.

It's not so much they skimped on quality, but in the 70's copper was very expensive.   I think it peaked in the mid 70's - iirc something to do with the Vietnam war and oil embargoes.   Back then there was no reason not to use aluminium, it worked perfectly well for telephony.     They just never envisaged 30+ years later we'd all be wanting to use something called the Internet and DSL.  :ouch:
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How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

kitz

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2020, 07:42:46 PM »

Those that are using the VMG8324 are you using it as a modem/router or just as a modem with your other hardware.

I use mine as a modem/router.   
I think on this forum we probably have a higher proportion using it in bridge mode than elsewhere, but based on MDWS days most people do seem to use it as an all in one.
 

Quote
If you are using it in bridge mode with your router


There's a tuturial here if it helps
https://kitz.co.uk/routers/zyxel_VMG8324-B10A_bridge.htm

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How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

dontasciime

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2020, 10:06:55 PM »

Thanks for the replies.

I'll have a look at that last link. I just set the 12  into bridge mode with the basic settings zen provided on the subject to get a connection. I then disabled as much stuff as I saw like wirleless  dhcp server etc.

I'm still waiting on the 8324 but tbh it appears that I am wasting my time now by the looks of it I can't even get my 60 sync back which was fine until the power cut on the 24th jan.

I wonder what is the point in the adsl checker clean / impacted and fallback stats if I cannot get isp/or to react to it. I understand I'm not going to see my 77:43 again but I thought there was a threshold that would enable me to have it maintained to the minimum standard showing
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 10:22:23 PM by dontasciime »
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ktz392837

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2020, 11:30:30 PM »

If you're below the handback threshold Zen should be doing something about it.  It is extremely poor if they are not especially being a supposedly premium ISP.

Imho below handback is a fault this in itself should mean no charge for engineer.  Make this clear.  What is opinion of Kitz and co on this?

When I got to the handback threshold with Plusnet they eventually recognised this and engineers were despatched and it was eventually sorted (note the plural) to my great satisfaction.

It is a gamble you could end up worse off.  You play the OR engineer roulette and the fact your rerouted line could be worse.    You may have to stand up to ISP / OR.

I am stuck on mobile so formatting of your stats is not great and I can't zoom in to screenshots enough but for your attenuation (14db?) I would expect more than what you are currently getting even for ECI. 

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Bowdon

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2020, 11:49:11 PM »

I think we're all suffering from some form of cross talk these days.

FTTC is a victim of its own success.

When the older gentleman next door to me died, a young family moved in and a couple of weeks later signed up to Sky Fibre. I immediately lost around 10Mbps on my line.

When I started off on FTTC I used to be in the mid 70s. These days I'm at 53/54. We had a powercut last week and my house is on a different power circuit to next door and I got the power on first (for about an hour) and my sync speed shot up to 73. That lasted until the power went again, and when every house came back online I was back down to 53.

I'm still waiting for the Greater Manchester Combined Authority to get announcing the contract for FTTP connectivity. I got a feeling by the time FTTP reaches me I'll be crawling along at ADSL speeds  :'(
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