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Author Topic: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53  (Read 1388 times)

dontasciime

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Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« on: March 07, 2020, 11:23:31 PM »

I would just like to have if at all possible some input from the knowledgable

I had FTTC enabled in 2012 I was with ADSL24

These are some stats I gained from the HG-612 modem shortly after install (engineer installed HG-612) but not the one I swapped to get stats

# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max:    Upstream rate = 32311 Kbps, Downstream rate = 100456 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      32311 kbps        100456 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        4.4 dBm          13.8 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  0.1     14.1    25.3     N/A    9.9     22.2    34.6

Signal Attenuation(dB):  0.1     14.0    25.2     N/A    9.9     22.2    34.6

        SNR Margin(dB):  9.6     11.1    13.6     N/A    11.4    11.4    11.7

         TX Power(dBm): -6.3    -28.2    3.9      N/A    11.0    7.4     7.4





22:58 26/07/2012


---------------

These are from 2015

---

14:45 04/07/2015


ATP>sh


BusyBox v1.9.1 (2010-10-15 17:59:06 CST) built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max:    Upstream rate = 28551 Kbps, Downstream rate = 80184 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 65766 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      28551 kbps         80184 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        4.4 dBm          13.8 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  0.3     14.4    25.6     N/A    10.0    22.4    35.0

Signal Attenuation(dB):  0.3     14.3    25.5     N/A    10.0    22.4    35.0

        SNR Margin(dB):  10.5    10.0    9.9      N/A    6.4     6.4     6.6

         TX Power(dBm): -5.1    -30.9    3.9      N/A    11.0    7.4     7.4

#


----

and these from yesterday  from a zyxel  VMG1312-B10A

============================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 0 hour: 12 minutes
============================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     20.202 Mbps       53.739 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     20.000 Mbps       53.643 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        6.7 dB            6.3 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        4.1 dBm           4.1 dBm
           Receive Power:       -7.0 dBm           0.3 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       11.1 dB           14.0 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     23.361 Mbps       63.543 Mbps
============================================================================
      VDSL Band Status    U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  0.2    14.5    25.1     N/A     9.6    21.4    34.4   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  0.5    14.5    25.2     N/A    11.5    21.2    34.3   
        SNR Margin(dB):  9.8     6.7     6.6     N/A     6.3     6.3     6.3   
   Transmit Power(dBm):- 6.7   -30.0     3.7     N/A    11.0     7.2     7.6   
============================================================================

            VDSL Counters

           Downstream        Upstream
Since Link time = 12 min 59 sec
FEC:      35      20
CRC:      0      2
ES:      0      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 25 sec
FEC:      35      20
CRC:      0      2
ES:      0      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      25      25
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 0 sec
FEC:      0      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 13 min 25 sec
FEC:      35      20
CRC:      0      2
ES:      0      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      25      25
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:      0      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Total time = 13 min 25 sec
FEC:      35      20
CRC:      0      2
ES:      0      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      25      25
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
============================================================================

         


The above (i only plugged in zyxel (bought 2nd hand on ebay recently) just to get stats as I have been using the ECI modem for the last 5 months

When sync started going south again last year 2019 (recently) I changed my engineer installed hg-612 for another hg 612 then found out cab was ECI so bought b- focus v-2Fub/r Rev.B   and left it on    11-Sep-2019 02:29   to try and get sync rate back up  in case both my hg 612 had gone faulty this stayed synced at 60143 from    11-Sep-2019 02:29 till 24th jan 2020 when i had a powercut and upon the power being restored modem was synced at 68438 this only last till 27th jan 2020 and then it dropped to 52071 on the 27th jan 2017 as can be seen in attached image (if they are working )       

Current ISP is zen

This is what adsl checker says now



I'd just like some advice as to what my line should be able to actually do now as it just keep syncing lower and lower   and anything I can do as I don't want a charge from  sfi2 visit  as zen are saying there is no fault when they do their line test and they'll book an engineer as long as I agree that a no fault found by engineer means I have to pay.

OR install in 2012 installed hg-612 as well as a new filtered faceplate   with tel and rj111 sockets  (same one still) I do not run any extension only phone in house is on same socket and I replaced the phone recently as well in case old one had issues.  I used a billion 7800n with this for many years until it started having trouble so I replaced it with r7000 with xwrt-vortex firmware and also bought another 7800n new which i have tried as well

« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 12:26:32 PM by dontasciime »
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2020, 12:13:52 AM »

I doubt there is anything you can do, this is just basically crosstalk as more people have upgraded.  A lot of us are in the same boat.
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kitz

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2020, 09:52:29 AM »

In similar situation as you - as are a lot of us who got fttc in the early days - and seeing the effects of crosstalk.   :(
 
When I first got vdsl my max attainable headline speed was ~110Mbps. I'm currently syncing at ~ 66 Mbps and it's even lower with most other modems... so that's a loss of 44Mbps from my headline speed.  My most noticeable drop was  ~11Mbps loss when my immediate neighbour upgraded from adsl2+ to fttc.


I notice you are interleaved which can knock off another 4-5 Mbps.  :/

The VMG8324 gives me ~3Mbps more sync speed than the HG612 due to an internal noise filter which usually means less errors on most lines.  Despite being on an ECI cab, the BCM based chipsets work better on my line than the Lantiq VRX-268 in the ECI modem  (last time I checked ~6Mb more).  The VMG1312-B10A also has a similar filter so it may help reduce your error rate  and if so interleaving may be removed.   Keep an eye on the errors - particularly the error seconds. 
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dontasciime

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2020, 09:58:48 AM »

Thanks


The zyxel I bought that I used in bridge mode with the r7000 had 13 drops from a short test and the 12 minutes it was up at beginning of test there were FEC errors if that has any bearing also an issue with the r7000 internet led was going out but still had internet but then seeing it go orange again as it's establishing a PPPoE connection again meant I can't be using that (i really just wanted to see stats as my hg-612 that I uploaded custom firmware to seemed to not work last time I tried it  not sure if it had it's firmware upgraded via OR (if that really was a thing) anyway seemed easier to just buy a second hand zyxel to see stats but it appears it's broken for use

Zen also say they have tested for crosstalk  and there is none :*

As far as I am concerned now I'd just like to get back to above what my minimum is supposed to be 60 ish
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 10:31:09 AM by dontasciime »
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CarlT

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2020, 10:00:14 AM »

This is almost exactly how mine went.

Started at 100/30 attainable, went to 65/20 by the time I left FTTC.

Vectoring would restore it but that's unlikely now. FTTP is where the money is going now. No worries about crosstalk on that  :)
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mofa2020

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2020, 10:03:23 AM »

I lost ~30mb due to cross talk.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2020, 10:49:04 AM »

The different colours are samples from 2013, 2015, 2018 and 2019, showing how the line stats have dramatically reduced.


2013 Digital Region (zero crosstalk, uncapped line):
Max:   Upstream rate = 34761 Kbps, Downstream rate = 118308 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 35820 Kbps, Downstream rate = 99999 Kbps


2015 Openreach (still zero crosstalk as I was probably the only customer on the cabinet):
Max:   Upstream rate = 28837 Kbps, Downstream rate = 90764 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps


2019 Openreach (hello crosstalk):
Max:   Upstream rate = 28789 Kbps, Downstream rate = 54128 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69542 Kbps


2020 Openreach
No stats but sync rate had dropped to 62.24Mbit.  I did improve it to 66Mbit by changing to a Lantiq chipset modem, then up to 73.9Mbit by using OpenWRT on said modem so I could tweak the SNR down closer to 3dB.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 04:27:58 AM by Alex Atkin UK »
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jelv

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2020, 11:42:10 AM »

From soon after my install:

Max:    Upstream rate = 42458 Kbps, Downstream rate = 125020 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps


Just now:

Max:   Upstream rate = 21037 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78028 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
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mofa2020

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2020, 11:46:12 AM »

So why vectoring is not used yet! unless OR is happy with the cross-talk as infrastructure can not hold high speeds for massive numbers maybe!!!!! :hmm:
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dontasciime

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2020, 12:30:02 PM »

VMG8324-B10A   I bought one I assumed without checking it that it will go into bridge mode to work along side my r7000

  In case it's the dual band VMG8924-B10A  sent is that the same (just about to check specs now) I assumed it was the same but with 2.4 and 5 Ghz and  AC instead of N eg just a dual band version eg with the same internal  filter
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 12:35:08 PM by dontasciime »
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CarlT

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2020, 12:47:14 PM »

So why vectoring is not used yet! unless OR is happy with the cross-talk as infrastructure can not hold high speeds for massive numbers maybe!!!!! :hmm:

Openreach aren't interested in spending the money for vectoring. They are deploying FTTP now. This is all people are going to get.
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dontasciime

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2020, 02:51:20 PM »

I'd love to get FTTP but I just can't see them spending the money in my town
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ktz392837

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2020, 03:39:46 PM »

From my experience a 40% drop in sync speed due to crosstalk is not unheard of. 

Also on an ECI cab and swear by the Zyxel 8324/1312 B10A.  Don't expect a miracle but for my line it keeps the error rate significantly lower and therefore stops banding/>6db syncing.

I do seem to get a burst of errors that nothing can help with every couple of weeks and I end up on an interleaved connection anyway for a couple of weeks this then flip flops.  This started a few months ago.

We can all hope the upcoming Ginp trial for ECI will help.  It should cut down errors and give a bit of a sync speed improvement if you are lucky.  If ginp works we can then hope for 3db profiles.  Don't hold you breathe though we have been waiting for ginp for 5 years and they haven't got it to work on ECI.

I think he trial is due to start middle of next week if nothing has changed.  Hopefully we will get reports from users who are lucky enough to be picked.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 03:45:29 PM by ktz392837 »
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mofa2020

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2020, 04:25:55 PM »

Openreach aren't interested in spending the money for vectoring. They are deploying FTTP now. This is all people are going to get.

Yes but that would take time and subscribers are losing speeds, also I saw here that FTTP is on demand only and people would pay for installation to get the higher stable speeds without suffering from FTTC issues so that would be unfair for some people who can not get it and OR keeps vectoring off..

Yes, that is possible, and is actually available in UK as FTTP on demand, mainly offered to business customers, however if your pocket is deep enough this can be done for home users as well, just expensive.

It is "FTTP on Demand" and does not come from the fibre at the FTTC cabinet but from a nearby (hopefully) Fibre Aggregation Node which links back to the exchange. As it is a custom installation prices can be high, 10K to 20K GBP or more unless the node is very close in which case you may pay under 10K so not generally economically viable for residential customers. :o
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dontasciime

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Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2020, 04:29:05 PM »

I've just asked Cerberus for a quote for Fod to see what the damage is

they for fttc LLU indicate 70.88 (wish regulatory body could step in and fix this illusion)

In excess of £3,600 doesn't cut it though as It is likely to be further away than the cab or as I suspect on the opposite side of estate next to factories for businesses. So pipe dream 101

 

 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 04:50:58 PM by dontasciime »
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