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Author Topic: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?  (Read 3606 times)

Ixel

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2020, 01:27:03 AM »

Am I remembering correctly that, fairly recently, CarlT mentioned the Firebrick boxes were not able to cope with the top-end speed of multi-gigabit services?  :-\

You could be correct as the specification says routing up to 750 megabits. Still, I'd settle for 550/75 if that was an option this year, depending on price too of course.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 01:31:07 AM by Ixel »
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Weaver

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2020, 07:39:25 AM »

@Burakkucat I agree. There isn’t a 10Gbps Firebrick. Not yet. I would think they’re probably working on it but such a thing might need radical architectural changes, more hardware and less software processing.
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Bowdon

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2020, 02:15:51 PM »

It is good to read threads like this, especially when for years whenever people mentioned full fibre the standard reply was "why do you want that much speed?".

As pointed out in this thread fibre is so much more than speed. You're actually getting the service you've paid for.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2020, 05:33:39 PM »

Indeed, and as its TDMA you are guaranteed a minimum time slot so no single user can ever completely drown out other users traffic and latency should be kept better under control.

The one thing I am curious about though is, how does security work on a PON?  If every user is getting the entire PONs traffic, how do you prevent a rogue ONT from snooping on other users data?
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PhilipD

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2020, 05:45:38 PM »

Hi

The data is encrypted and only your ONT can decrypt your data, this is why you can't simply replace the ONT for something else of your choosing as only a Openreach engineer can update the encryption to work with a different ONT.

Even if someone does manage to read the data, most important stuff is encrypted anyway via SSL, so still wouldn't be readable.

Regards

Phil
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2020, 12:04:36 PM »

That's what I'd hoped but I never take data security for granted these days after so many reports of manufacturers doing a half-assed job, or not bothering at all.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2020, 12:45:10 PM »

Indeed, and as its TDMA you are guaranteed a minimum time slot so no single user can ever completely drown out other users traffic and latency should be kept better under control.

The one thing I am curious about though is, how does security work on a PON?  If every user is getting the entire PONs traffic, how do you prevent a rogue ONT from snooping on other users data?

Not my forte whatsoever .... but to my simplistic mind, each address has a 'forever' NAD key assigned to them. This is unique for each premises.

I have no idea, but would imagine the ONT is pre-built with this key ?? Or, maybe the engineer inputs it at the installation stage ?? Not got a clue though.
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burakkucat

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2020, 06:47:13 PM »

Or, maybe the engineer inputs it at the installation stage ?? Not got a clue though.

Each ONT has an unique serial number, expressed both in digits and as the corresponding bar-code. That serial number is the "magic sauce".

The engineer scans the bar-code with her/his phone and uploads to "somewhere-in-the-BT-Group-land". Within a few minutes the ONT should then be active.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2020, 09:28:37 PM »

Each ONT has an unique serial number, expressed both in digits and as the corresponding bar-code. That serial number is the "magic sauce".

The engineer scans the bar-code with her/his phone and uploads to "somewhere-in-the-BT-Group-land". Within a few minutes the ONT should then be active.

Thanks for that B*Cat ..... would I be right to assume that this unique ONT SN, is then aligned with the unique NAD key assigned to that address ??

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burakkucat

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2020, 10:32:55 PM »

<snip> would I be right to assume that this unique ONT SN, is then aligned with the unique NAD key assigned to that address ??

I would say so, yes.

For example: An iffy capacitor, on the PCB of the ONT, goes pop. The ONT ceases to operate. End-user puts in a report to her/his ISP, usual performance (blah, blah).

An Openreach appointment is made; the appropriate person is tasked to visit. A quick check shows the installed ONT is deceased. A new device, from van stock, is installed. The bar-code is scanned, on phone, and the details are uploaded to "somewhere-in-the-BT-Group-land". The relevant database is updated, linking the serial number to the NAD key and a button is pressed. All green LEDs show on the ONT and the service is restored.
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CarlT

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2020, 03:14:52 PM »

@Burakkucat I agree. There isn’t a 10Gbps Firebrick. Not yet. I would think they’re probably working on it but such a thing might need radical architectural changes, more hardware and less software processing.

Can be done via x86 CPUs quite happily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Express_Data_Path

Vyatta among others already support it.
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Routing: Ubiquiti UDM Pro - 10Gb uplink
Switching: 2 * Mikrotik CRS305-1G-4S-IN, 10Gb uplinks, various cheap and cheerful
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CarlT

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2020, 03:47:52 PM »

Now on FTTP.

Not a lot has changed, actually. Too early to report on reliability.
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WiFi: Nighthawk® AX12 RAX120 - 5Gb uplink
Routing: Ubiquiti UDM Pro - 10Gb uplink
Switching: 2 * Mikrotik CRS305-1G-4S-IN, 10Gb uplinks, various cheap and cheerful
ONT: Huawei 1+1
Exchange: Wakefield
ISP: BT Full Fibre 900. Yes, BT, I know.

Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2020, 06:35:57 PM »

Now on FTTP.

Not a lot has changed, actually. Too early to report on reliability.

Prepare the backhoes!
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bp1000

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2020, 05:13:16 PM »

Any ISP recommendations for FTTP

As I'm moving from 50Mbps FTTC id quite like to opt for a 150 and ideally the 300Mbps option. So with pricing the biggest factor then stability who should I go with?

P.S. Native OpenReach
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 05:16:01 PM by bp1000 »
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PhilipD

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2020, 10:17:31 AM »

Hi

You get what you pay for really.

As FTTP is pretty stable and you get the line rate speed you buy, the support the ISP gives is probably less important, as you are less likely to need it. But you can still get congestion issues and slow downs if the ISP doesn't have enough capacity.

Do you need a static IP and IPv6?  Is it business or pleasure?

Personally I've not used I mainstream ISP for many years and it is has been worth the extra cost to just have people answer tickets in 5 minutes rather than 5 days, it is night and day.  It's like most goods and services, you only get to find out how good they are when you have a problem.

If want the cheapest and don't need a extras like static IPs, then like buying Tesco's basic baked beans or Sainsbury's basic baked beans, they are not going to be very different.  So you might wish to see what offers they have on and might just come down to who offers the better router?

Regards

Phil
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