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Author Topic: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?  (Read 3646 times)

PhilipD

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Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« on: February 21, 2020, 09:10:03 AM »

Hi

Well I've been on FTTP for a number of months now having ditched the VDSL, was lucky enough for 80/20 on VDSL but was only just holding on to that as it had been a continual decline in margin since I joined the cab some years ago, and was getting close to seeing sync speeds affected, was on an ECI cab.

Most days I would check the VDSL stats and had monitoring set up.  There were various issues over the years needing some troubleshooting and the occasional post here for advice, in every case when it went down it was nothing to do with my kit and the connection eventually came back on, much to my annoyance after rebooting things and trying spare modems.

FTTP of course is a different type of connection entirely, for a start there are no stats available to monitor from the ONT and little we could do about them if there were, so very much a black box (well white box) that just works. It's not been power cycled since the engineer plugged it in some 60 days ago, no reason to.  Had a thunderstorm the other day and FTTP of course was completely unaffected and I didn't need to worry about it.  The copper telephone line is disconnected and will likely never be used again.

So FTTP is reliable, fast, and uncomplicated, all the things we want, however I miss just a little xDSL for the insights I had into it's inner workings, watching error-rates, and each time I checked it feeling pleased I'm still not interleaved and still at 80/20 (just), but no I wouldn't go back to it.

What will happen to forums and communities like this when the vast majority of us are on FTTP?  I guess they become a thing of the past or talk about something else.  I've already noticed a quietening down in forums such as this and others relating to broadband.

If you have FTTP now how is the reliability, do you miss just a little your xDSL and stat monitoring?  Perhaps you will not even being reading this as you have little need to visit here to read up on it or see what the latest tips are to optimise it.

Regards

Phil
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CarlT

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2020, 09:21:36 AM »

Nearly on FTTP but before that cable and before that FTTC.

I don't really miss xDSL and didn't really watch the stats. If I didn't notice an issue using it or changes in performance there was no need to seek stats.

The more general networking section will get busier I imagine. The ADSL/VDSL issues section less so. People will still have issues but they will be because the service has substantially changed in performance, rather than because they are watching statistics more closely than most major companies watch their global networks.

I'm sure the odd person will start running hourly speed, latency and jitter tests to give themselves something to fixate over but I will be delighted when the age of people watching stats looking for issues, rather than because they have actually experienced them, is largely over.
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Weaver

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2020, 11:20:03 AM »

Exactly. I don’t look at stats all the time. I think it will be like going from vinyl to cd in the 1980s; no more warps and scratches - it just works perfectly and becomes a black box.

For me it will mean an end to equipment damage and no downtime when there’s an electrical storm.
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Ixel

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2020, 11:29:15 AM »

I am on FTTP 330/30 currently, well, FTTP on demand. Paid a few thousand for the installation and I guess it took in the region of 6 to 9 months to be completed and go live. I was on FTTC with two lines previously (bonded), one of which was troublesome at times. The troublesome factor is what encouraged me to get FTTPoD, as well as the price being on the lower end of some of the other quotes out there.

Suffice to say that I'm not missing xDSL at all. No more traditional interleaving (INP/delay) to worry about, no more banding and no more DLM interference. An always on connection unless there's some overnight work taking place (rare) or a fault (not had any yet, nearly a year since being live). My FTTPoD minimum term is nearly finished, but I'm keeping an eye on what options may appear when 550/75 and 1000/110 become available. FTTP has been extremely reliable for me but it does mean I post on various related forums much less than I used to unfortunately.

I'm currently with Cerberus, had no issues with their service which is a good thing. I used to be with AAISP but they don't offer FTTPoD and when I can 'regrade' to native FTTP they unfortunately don't offer anything faster than 160/30.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 11:34:13 AM by Ixel »
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PhilipD

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2020, 11:53:38 AM »

Exactly. I don’t look at stats all the time. I think it will be like going from vinyl to cd in the 1980s; no more warps and scratches - it just works perfectly and becomes a black box.

Exactly my point though in that many people prefer vinyl and it is still produced and gaining again in popularity. Owners have to tweak tone arms and maintain their turntables and carefully handle their records, but that makes it all part of the experience for some people, it is a hobby, a challenge to get the best you can out of the equipment.  Even cassette tapes are becoming popular with some cassette decks from the 80s and 90s being traded for thousands of pounds.

How much time are spent by some here discussing the tweaks and tips and the best cables to use to just get an extra few bits through a second?  We wouldn't waste our time on often insignificant gains if it wasn't for some joy we get from it, some little hit of dopamine because we've improved the SNR or managed to get ourselves off being interleaved.

Would I go back to xDSL no I wouldn't.  However put it this way though, if we could view some stats on our FTTP connections and we had a forum that shared tips and tricks to get more speed out of it (if such a thing was possible on FTTP), would we be tinkering and trying those tips, I bet we would  ;D

Regards

Phil
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Weaver

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2020, 12:03:18 PM »

Ixel AA are mad to lose you. They need to be ready to handle the top end of the FTTP market and be ready for the mass changes to FTTP and eventually to gigabit otherwise they will become irrelevant. Like what happened to Demon when DSL arrived - they had a superb set up for dialup - with MPPC compression and the fastest dial up speeds 50k even despite my incredibly long but clean copper line.

AA does fast fibre for ethernet customers. And if you want FTTPoD then they should just say yes sir and the customer is king. And this 160Mbps thing is madness. Would they say no if you chose 2 times 160Mbps FTTP bonded?

Just so I understand FTTP 160 wasn’t available to you anyway?
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Ixel

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2020, 12:37:00 PM »

Ixel AA are mad to lose you. They need to be ready to handle the top end of the FTTP market and be ready for the mass changes to FTTP and eventually to gigabit otherwise they will become irrelevant. Like what happened to Demon when DSL arrived - they had a superb set up for dialup - with MPPC compression and the fastest dial up speeds 50k even despite my incredibly long but clean copper line.

AA does fast fibre for ethernet customers. And if you want FTTPoD then they should just say yes sir and the customer is king. And this 160Mbps thing is madness. Would they say no if you chose 2 times 160Mbps FTTP bonded?

Just so I understand FTTP 160 wasn’t available to you anyway?

I agree.

I haven't asked them what would happen if I ordered 2 x 160's. When I'm able to regrade to native FTTP (soon), before I do I'll contact AAISP and see what they can potentially offer me. I would rather be with AAISP as I know my actual bandwidth limit each month, rather than being on an unknown fair usage policy of 'unlimited' bandwidth. They don't charge extra for multiple IP addresses either, which is nice. I couldn't order FTTP 160 at the time anyway since I needed to go via FTTPoD first, which they aren't offering due to the higher costs of installation usually putting off customers who might be interested I believe.
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spaace

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2020, 01:01:29 PM »

Whats the latency like?
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Ixel

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2020, 01:44:44 PM »

Whats the latency like?

Code: [Select]
No Time(ms) IP Address Note Name
1 5.429 8.8.8.8 Reply
2 5.277 8.8.8.8 Reply dns.google
3 5.246 8.8.8.8 Reply dns.google
4 5.336 8.8.8.8 Reply dns.google
5 5.258 8.8.8.8 Reply dns.google
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dee.jay

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2020, 01:46:34 PM »

I am pleased to read that once you have FTTP there is no more worry about stats or anything. I am looking forward to getting FTTP. Currently have 2 x VDSL circuits, not bonded, but will be looking to install FTTP as soon as possible. I have a feeling about this time next year it should be available for me. Choice of ISP will be interesting, AAISP I think will no longer be an option, I will be wanting as much speed as I can deem reasonably affordable, given I'm paying Ł80 for two VDSL circuits today, I would probably be willing to cap at Ł100 a month for the right service should it be available.
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spaace

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2020, 02:26:38 PM »

Code: [Select]
No Time(ms) IP Address Note Name
1 5.429 8.8.8.8 Reply
2 5.277 8.8.8.8 Reply dns.google
3 5.246 8.8.8.8 Reply dns.google
4 5.336 8.8.8.8 Reply dns.google
5 5.258 8.8.8.8 Reply dns.google

thanks, where in the country are you?
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Ixel

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2020, 03:23:21 PM »

thanks, where in the country are you?

East Sussex, England.
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mofa2020

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2020, 05:03:14 PM »

I would miss line stats, DLM and all the suspense FTTC makes... though I do not have much problems with FTTC but I keep an eye on the stats from time to time.
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burakkucat

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2020, 05:25:13 PM »

Ixel AA are mad to lose you.

Am I remembering correctly that, fairly recently, CarlT mentioned the Firebrick boxes were not able to cope with the top-end speed of multi-gigabit services?  :-\
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Who's on FTTP, how is the reliability, are we missing xDSL?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2020, 09:53:36 PM »

I can already say I will not miss stat watching and wondering what sync rate I'm at.

I'm actually hugely looking forward to not having to cut off my broadband during storms and always knowing exactly what speed my service is provisioned at.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 05:29:16 PM by Alex Atkin UK »
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