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[BlGD]

Hi guys first post nice site btw

Having trouble with my orange connection, the ping has more then trebled  since they have installed ADSL 2 .

Not sure if this is a co-incidence because the only responce I get is that the problem is my end 

If I run a xp tracert the results are faverable, but if I monitor the connection with ping plotter all of the hops take it in turn to spike massively..

Target Name: N/A
         IP: 193.93.45.30
  Date/Time: 09/07/2008 20:18:57 to 09/07/2008 20:19:42

 1    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms  SE572 [192.168.1.1]
 2   36 ms   36 ms   36 ms   36 ms   36 ms   36 ms   36 ms   35 ms   36 ms   36 ms  [87.237.21.183]
 3   40 ms   41 ms   37 ms   40 ms   37 ms   37 ms   37 ms   40 ms   37 ms   38 ms  [10.192.1.229]
 4   *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       [-]
 5   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms   46 ms   46 ms   46 ms  [194.35.183.81]
 6   45 ms   45 ms   51 ms   45 ms   56 ms   45 ms   61 ms   57 ms   46 ms   61 ms  [81.52.176.65]
 7   46 ms   46 ms  N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A      45 ms  N/A      46 ms  ge-1-0-0-0.loncr5.London.opentransit.net [193.251.242.21]
 8  138 ms   48 ms   49 ms   51 ms   47 ms   49 ms   47 ms   48 ms   48 ms   47 ms  level3-1.GW.opentransit.net [193.251.254.98]
 9  N/A     232 ms  N/A     N/A     N/A      46 ms  N/A     N/A     N/A      46 ms  ae-11-53.car1.London1.Level3.net [4.68.116.79]
10   47 ms   47 ms   46 ms   46 ms  191 ms   47 ms   47 ms   47 ms   47 ms   46 ms  unknown.Level3.net [212.113.11.142]
11  139 ms  137 ms  134 ms   51 ms  138 ms   52 ms   47 ms  142 ms   49 ms   47 ms  [193.93.45.30]

Ping statistics for 193.93.45.30
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0.0%)
Round Trip Times: Minimum = 47ms, Maximum = 142ms, Average = 93ms

When you consider that I was hitting this server @ around 28-31ms before march 23rd (when they done work at our exchange)this is a large increase enough to kill most of my gaming

as you can see different hop big spike

Target Name: N/A
         IP: 193.93.45.30
  Date/Time: 09/07/2008 20:24:48 to 09/07/2008 20:25:33

 1    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms  SE572 [192.168.1.1]
 2   36 ms   36 ms   35 ms   36 ms   36 ms   35 ms   36 ms   36 ms   36 ms   36 ms  [87.237.21.183]
 3   37 ms   36 ms   36 ms   36 ms   37 ms   36 ms   37 ms   36 ms   36 ms   36 ms  [10.192.1.229]
 4   *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *      N/A      [-]
 5   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms  201 ms   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms  [194.35.183.81]
 6   45 ms   45 ms   46 ms   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms   45 ms   51 ms   57 ms   46 ms  [81.52.176.65]
 7  N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A      45 ms  N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A      45 ms  ge-1-3-0-0.loncr5.London.opentransit.net [193.251.242.181]
 8   55 ms   46 ms   46 ms   47 ms  134 ms   49 ms   46 ms   86 ms   47 ms  230 ms  level3-1.GW.opentransit.net [193.251.254.98]
 9  N/A     N/A      46 ms   52 ms  N/A      45 ms  N/A     N/A      46 ms   46 ms  ae-11-53.car1.London1.Level3.net [4.68.116.79]
10   47 ms  184 ms   46 ms   46 ms   46 ms  246 ms   46 ms   46 ms   46 ms  150 ms  unknown.Level3.net [212.113.11.142]
11  134 ms  140 ms  131 ms   48 ms  135 ms   51 ms   47 ms  124 ms   47 ms   51 ms  [193.93.45.30]

Ping statistics for 193.93.45.30
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0.0%)
Round Trip Times: Minimum = 47ms, Maximum = 140ms, Average = 90ms

Any help you can give would be great

[kitz]

From the traces youve provided, there doesnt appear to be any problems at your end.

Whilst I dont know for certain, it looks like Interleaving may have been applied to your line.
Your ISP may switch this off for you (I dont know if Orange do or not).  Getting interleaving turned off will possibly lop around 20ms off your time... certainly worth asking.

Theres no particular problem with the *'s.  It looks like that particular router is set not to respond to pings.  This could through up some weird problems with ping plotter.

However, the biggest problem appears to be at the peer point between Level 3 and the server you are trying to ping, this depends upon your ISP routing, but that particular point is outside your ISP control.

I'm way up in the northwest and Im able to ping that router in 15ms

[guest]

Its L3. As usual.

Any gamer should shudder if they see L3 traces.

As its Orange (AKA France Telecom) you are stuffed because they're not going to use anything other than opentransit.net which with inexorable logic leads to them peering with L3 to get to Rackage (which is in Manchester - MANAP IIRC).

Only hope is that L3 break something, which isn't entirely unheard of.

[BlGD]

Thanx for ur help guys,

Have read the bit on interleaving sounds interesting, when the tec dudes phones me tomorrow I will ask and see 

If all else fails and I have to change (6 yrs nice pings np til now) can anyone recomend a good isp for 80% gaming not too fussed on speed (2meg min is fine) just need a sweet connection 

Again thanks for your help

 : D

[kitz]

YW

>> can anyone recomend a good isp for 80% gaming not too fussed on speed

Put your details in the adsl checker and let us know what LLU ISPs come back on the right hand side.  Most other ISP will use BTw IPStream, but we need to know what LLU ISPs are available before advising further.

[BlGD]

High put the details in and it came up with this


 
  AOL Available 
  Be* Not available 
  C&W/Bulldog Not available 
  Edge Telecom Not available 
  Homechoice Not available 
  Lumison Not available 
  NewNet Not available 
  Node4 Not available 
  O2 Not available 
  Orange Available 30.05.08
  Pipex Not available 
  Smallworld Not available 
  Sky Available 07.05.07
  TalkTalk Available 05.05.07
  Tiscali Available 25.07.07
  UK Online Available 07.05.07
  WB Internet Not available 
  Zen Not available 
       
Cable     
  Virgin Media Not available 
  Smallworld Media Not available 
       
Wireless     
  LTT Broadband Not available 
  Now Wireless Not available

Was it the move to that LLU thing thats the prob then or are orange just no good for gaming anymore 

Also says this not sure if you  need it or not

ADSL enabled : May 31, 2002
 dsl Max enabled:  March 31, 2006
 SDSL enabled : Not Enabled
 21CN due : no info
Distance:- Direct:    473 metres

 Fixed:  1Mbps and 2Mbps available
 radsl:  512Kbps and 256Kbps available
 MAX:  ADSL Max is available
 SDSL:  Exchange Not Enabled
 TPON:  TPON/Fibre not recorded
 Check:  The check identified another service on your line which may prevent you from ordering a new ADSL connection. Examples are : Existing adsl connection, DACs, LLU, TPON

To me thats like reading another language lol thanks again
 

[BlGD]

Ok spoke to Orange tech support, they know less about interleaving than me  (how is this poss  )

Anyway gave up with them and went for the MAC code. There I found the most helpful lady I have yet spoken to from orange  She got a engineer there and then to look at my connection and agreed to get interleaving switched off at the cost of being put back to 4meg (Happy Days)..

Thanks for all your help guys hopefully my next post will just be a update, but nothing seems to ever be that easy for me 

Would like to know your isp recomendations just in case though ..

[kitz]

From the choice of LLU providers available to you , then theres only really UKO that would look at turning interleaving off - and even thats a fairly recent development - link.
Rizla is with UKO so perhaps he's best commenting on what theyre like with Interleaving.

Well.. ok Tiscali would... but you did ask for a decent gaming ISP right?

>> Was it the move to that LLU thing

yep - "Orange Available 30.05.08".  That looks like whats happened and your line is now LLU'd (ADSL2)

>> dsl Max enabled:  March 31, 2006

Means that you can go with any ISP that uses maxdsl ie Zen, Plusnet, Enta, etc etc

>> Distance:- Direct:    473 metres

Youre on a short line - you should get very good speeds.
Without seeing your linestats.. that indicates that you should get near full speeds with whichever ISP you choose to go with.  ( < 16Mb with Sky/UKo)


>> agreed to get interleaving switched off at the cost of being put back to 4meg (Happy Days)..

Ermm  if youre only 473 meters (direct) to the exchange you should get more than that?  You should get the full 8Mb.
Can I see your line stats please.

[BlGD]

See told ya nothing for me was ever easy  ...Ok hopefully this is the right bit 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADSL    Top   Refresh ADSL firmware version : A2pBT009c1.d17d
Connection mode : ADSL2
Type : Fast
Noise margin (dB) : 11.8
Attenuation (dB) : 20.0
Attainable download rate (kbps) : 8644
ADSL status : Connected

 
  Downstream Upstream
Rate (kbps) 8060 605

At best I can only ever get 6.2 nowhere near the full 8

[guest]

From the choice of LLU providers available to you , then theres only really UKO that would look at turning interleaving off - and even thats a fairly recent development - link.
Rizla is with UKO so perhaps he's best commenting on what theyre like with Interleaving.

With UKO interleaving is turned ON on all ADSL2+ connections. No exceptions to the rule and they will not remove interleaving under any circumstances. Or so they said anyway

Routing with UKO (Easynet really) is frankly superb. They are far and away the best "connected" ISP I have used since the days that Adrian Mardlin ran Nildram's network and that is saying something!

Interleaving adds 15-20ms latency to my connection but that's a stable 15-20ms which isn't like network latency which is traffic dependent. I'd rather have that than Level3 any day of the week - which was a factor in me leaving Be too.

Edit - tracert to that gameserver if it helps :

Tracing route to 193.93.45.30 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1     1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  server-a.homelan.local [192.168.0.1]
  2     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  router.homelan.unsafe [192.168.10.2]
  3    32 ms    32 ms    32 ms  dr4.bllon.uk.easynet.net [212.134.12.203]
  4    33 ms    32 ms    33 ms  ge-3-2-0-46.br0.bllon.uk.easynet.net [82.109.182.129]
  5    34 ms    32 ms    33 ms  ge0-1-1.er3.bllon.uk.easynet.net [212.135.12.41]
  6    34 ms    33 ms    31 ms  ge1-0-0.er3.tclon.uk.easynet.net [82.108.6.146]
  7    34 ms    34 ms    35 ms  be2.er10.txlon.ov.easynet.net [195.66.226.43]
  8    36 ms    36 ms    33 ms  linx-gw1.enta.net [195.66.226.151]
  9    35 ms    34 ms    34 ms  te5-2.global-switch.core.enta.net [87.127.236.42]
 10    33 ms    34 ms    34 ms  te4-3.telehouse-east.core.enta.net [87.127.236.81]
 11    36 ms    34 ms    35 ms  te2-3.redbus-sov3.core.enta.net [87.127.236.29]
 12    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  84-45-244-174.no-dns-yet.enta.net [84.45.244.174]
 13    33 ms    34 ms    35 ms  193.93.45.30

Trace complete.

[BlGD]

From the choice of LLU providers available to you , then theres only really UKO that would look at turning interleaving off - and even thats a fairly recent development - link.
Rizla is with UKO so perhaps he's best commenting on what theyre like with Interleaving.

With UKO interleaving is turned ON on all ADSL2+ connections. No exceptions to the rule and they will not remove interleaving under any circumstances. Or so they said anyway

Routing with UKO (Easynet really) is frankly superb. They are far and away the best "connected" ISP I have used since the days that Adrian Mardlin ran Nildram's network and that is saying something!

Interleaving adds 15-20ms latency to my connection but that's a stable 15-20ms which isn't like network latency which is traffic dependent. I'd rather have that than Level3 any day of the week - which was a factor in me leaving Be too.

Edit - tracert to that gameserver if it helps :

Tracing route to 193.93.45.30 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1     1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  server-a.homelan.local [192.168.0.1]
  2     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  router.homelan.unsafe [192.168.10.2]
  3    32 ms    32 ms    32 ms  dr4.bllon.uk.easynet.net [212.134.12.203]
  4    33 ms    32 ms    33 ms  ge-3-2-0-46.br0.bllon.uk.easynet.net [82.109.182.129]
  5    34 ms    32 ms    33 ms  ge0-1-1.er3.bllon.uk.easynet.net [212.135.12.41]
  6    34 ms    33 ms    31 ms  ge1-0-0.er3.tclon.uk.easynet.net [82.108.6.146]
  7    34 ms    34 ms    35 ms  be2.er10.txlon.ov.easynet.net [195.66.226.43]
  8    36 ms    36 ms    33 ms  linx-gw1.enta.net [195.66.226.151]
  9    35 ms    34 ms    34 ms  te5-2.global-switch.core.enta.net [87.127.236.42]
 10    33 ms    34 ms    34 ms  te4-3.telehouse-east.core.enta.net [87.127.236.81]
 11    36 ms    34 ms    35 ms  te2-3.redbus-sov3.core.enta.net [87.127.236.29]
 12    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  84-45-244-174.no-dns-yet.enta.net [84.45.244.174]
 13    33 ms    34 ms    35 ms  193.93.45.30

Trace complete.

Damn thats want I want  with those resultsit dosent matter about interleaving Are you near to Rackage (manchester ) Im way dwn south

[kitz]

>> Attenuation (dB) : 20.0

You should get up to the full 16Mb down 1Mb up sync with UKO (If thats the package that you go for).

>> Type : Fast

Looks like interleaving has already been removed.

>> Are you near to Rackage (manchester ) Im way dwn south

From the tracert rizla provided it all goes through telehouse-east in Docklands anyhow, so you should see similar to Rizlas.

[kitz]

>> With UKO interleaving is turned ON on all ADSL2+ connections.

Get your name on that list Rizla - see the link above.

[BlGD]

Well thats it then .

If they have no joy UKO it is ..

You got SUCH a good site thanx for all your help , my clan is lsf and i will point em all this way 

www.lsf-squad.com

[kitz]

YW.

There's a couple of other ISPs that could have been worth looking at too.. but obviously it depends what's available at your exchange - Hence why we got you to check 1st what is available, as it does vary from different locations.
There's also some good IPStream ISPs..  and the other consideration is what speeds your line is capable of.

You're lucky that you're not on a reasonable length line so should get good speeds.  This isnt the case for long lines and therefore for those users its not worth looking at the higher speeds.  Each line has to be judged by its own merits and what the user wants from the line.