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Author Topic: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk  (Read 10086 times)

wobbles

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Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« on: November 17, 2006, 07:43:14 PM »

Hi all,

I have had TalkTalk BB since August supplied with a Sagem 800 modem. The service is fairly stable (as much as TalkTalk ever will be...) with the supplied modem, but I obviously want to use ofther PCs at the same time.

I have a Netgear  DG834 v3 that I can no longer use with TalkTalk because:

1. After a random period between 10mins and 20 minutes the connection will drop and not reconnect unless I a) reboot the router b) remove and reinsert the modem cable.
2. What is also strange that often (but not always) when this happens I lose the ability to log into the router. I can ping it, I can telnet on TCP 80, but not login until I reboot it. Netgear support were no help on this issue and TalkTalk tech support just said that they do not support wireless routers!
3. I have had adsl / cable routers working fine with Telewest before and it was Netgear was working fine with TalkTalk until the LLU took place and then all hell broke loose.

As one techie to another, do you have any ideas? The Netgear is configured correctly as far as encap, VPI/VCI, etc.
Is there something else I am missing. I am a network engineer (routers / switches) but do not know much about the technicalites of ADSL settings.

Cheers

Wobbles
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roseway

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Re: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2006, 07:39:24 AM »

Welcome to the forum, Wobbles.

What connection stats does the DG834 report?

The other thing which comes to mind is that there's a timeout setting in the router config (normally you set it to zero for no timeout), but as the time varies I don't think this is likely to be the problem.

Eric
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wobbles

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Re: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2006, 12:49:38 AM »

Welcome to the forum, Wobbles.

What connection stats does the DG834 report?

The other thing which comes to mind is that there's a timeout setting in the router config (normally you set it to zero for no timeout), but as the time varies I don't think this is likely to be the problem.

Eric


Eric apologies for the delay and thanks for the welcome.

I have reconnected the modem today and these are results:

At 00.00hrs 27/11/06 connect the Netgear and the stats were as follows:

 
ADSL Link   Downstream   Upstream      
Connection Speed   5569 kbps   448 kbps      
Line Attenuation   42 db   11.5 db      
Noise Margin   2147483646 db   25 db   

By 00.20hrs 27/11 the connection had dropped. The stats still remained the same although the connection status was "Disconnect - LCP is allowed to come up".

I then remove and reconnect the modem cable from the router and it re-negotiates and connects. Stats are now:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5905 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 41 db 11.5 db Noise Margin 2147483647 db 24 db

However it is only a matter of time before it disconnects again after a short while. These are only logs I can see. Do you require any more indepth debugging of this router? I am not quite sure how to do so.

BTW the timeout is set to ZERO. There does not appear to be any option to configure CHAPS on this router. I assume that this is the default...

Cheers

Wobbles

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roseway

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Re: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2006, 07:47:13 AM »

Those large numbers for the downstream margin are the result of a small bug in the Netgear firmware. What they actually mean is that the noise margin is negative, so it's no surprise that the router loses sync soon after. What is a bit of a puzzle is that the Sagem modem is reasonably stable on the same line. There seem to be two possibilities:

1. The DG834 is simply not compatible with the particular conditions of your line, or

2. There's a line fault (e.g. a high resistance fault) and the DG834 is more susceptible to the fault than the Sagem modem.

Both possibilities are rather grasping at straws, I'm afraid. Is there any audible noise on the line? Changing the filters might be worth trying.

Eric
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wobbles

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Re: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2006, 12:59:57 PM »

Eric,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I have a feeling it could be both as the Netgear is so "flaky" on this connection whereas generally it is known as a good box.
 
I did the "debug" command on this router last night and telnet'd to it. Is there anything that I could look for that could be a clue?
What do you suggest I do about the bug in the Netgear fireware? Is it possible to downgrade it to a more stable, older version that would work with the v3 chassis?

Cheers

Wobbles
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mr_chris

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Re: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2006, 01:32:50 PM »

The v3 is a completely different beast inside than the v1 and v2 routers, unfortunately. It's more akin to a BT Voyager 2100 (but I wouldn't try that firmware, either!)

In the telnet you can type

cat /proc/avalanche/avsar_modem_stats

which will tell you about line errors, etc... but that's about all the useful information you can extract from that router, unfortunately.


*edit* oops, no you can't, that only works on the v1 and v2 :(
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Chris

roseway

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Re: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2006, 01:42:13 PM »

I don't think there's anything you can do about the negative noise margin firmware bug. As far as I know, all DG834 firmware versions have the bug; it's almost a Netgear trademark. :)
But you don't need to worry about it, as it doesn't affect performance. It's just an error in the way negative noise margins are reported in the stats.

Eric
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kitz

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Re: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2006, 06:22:45 AM »

not surprised its dropping out with the -ve SNR Margin.  :(
What does surprise me is that when you reconnect the Margin is still -ve..  yet the sync speed was higher.

Im also very surprised that the Sagem holds on better..  Therefore Im wondering if it manages to sync at a lower speed  to maintain the stability?

My usual advice would be to do all the usual lowSNR stuff http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm to try and get your SNR Margin as high as possible which under normal circumstances should help.

However...  (I may be wrong on this)..  but having seen what youve posted so far,  I cant help but wonder if this would simply cause your netgear to sync at an even higher speed and then we are back at square 1 again still with a low SNR.

Therefore IMHO it may be beneficial to ask your ISP to increase your Target SNR, which would lower your sync speed, but should give you a much more stable line.

Although the DG834 v3 is a broadcom router and the DMT tool should work for recording stats etc..  afaik you cant actually tweak the target SNR or sync speed yourself.
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wobbles

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Re: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2006, 08:46:54 AM »

Eric, Kitz,

Thanks for your advice.

I have noted that TT are now selling a TT re-badged, pre-configured wireless router on their website. Although it would really naff me off to give them more money bearing in mind their terrible standard of network and customer service - I am wondering, "Have they tweaked it to work with their bizarre ADSL setup?" and "As they are selling it, will they change their default statement that they do not support routers?"

Hmm...
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kitz

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Re: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2006, 06:18:59 PM »

I dont know much about their wireless one Im afraid.
But as with most of the ISP badged routers they are "something else under the hood", therefore there really is nothing that special about them.

Having tried to help someone with their Huawei one port router a while back, I sussed it was was a SAR110 clone, so in all likelyhood the wireless its something else under the hood and probably wont be any better than your Netgear - which have a good reputation.

I had "a spare one" of their SmartAX routers in my mits last week that was given to me to have a play with and see if it would take generic firmware - cept I forgot and left the thing in Manchester.  ???

I think TT like the idea of their users having generic routers which makes troubleshooting much easier for their support staff.. along with you using the TT software. 
They will also likely put their own web interface software on -  with the SmartAX, theyve left direct access via the web interface for some functions out of the router, but it would appear its still there if you want to telnet.
So possibly to also stop the less experienced users plays and twiddling with things too much.  :D
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sammi

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Re: Netgear DG834G V3 with TalkTalk
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2006, 12:07:08 AM »

hiya! Im having the same problem with a Micradigital modem from tesco with talk talk (I've just posted a topic in fact)
All my settings seem right and I can connect to the internet but after a few minutes I time out???
I just cant work out what can be causing it, I'm set to 0 minutes timeout also!

Is there anybody with wireless talk talk that works can you tell us what brand of modem/router you are using???
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