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Author Topic: Switch over from PN to Zen issue  (Read 5645 times)

N0STIE

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2020, 08:51:11 AM »

48hrs have passed since migration and still no sign of fast path :(
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2020, 09:37:41 AM »

If you've been forcing resyncs / swapping modems/routers, it could take considerably longer.
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Exchange: INTAKE (ECI) ISP/Modems: Zen (Home Hub 5A running OpenWrt) + Plusnet (VMG-3925-B10B) + Three (Hauwei B535-232)
Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD

tommy45

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2020, 03:28:44 PM »

Ignore the routing. Others are confusing the issue and that's not helping.

You said yourself this happened before your switch to Zen.
Zens backhaul or routing didn't add 8ms to your line while you were still with Plusnet.
Interleaving did.

The line would have gone to Interleaving the day you switched anyway. That's the default.

Just wait. There's nothing Zen can do. They can't modify the DLM profile.


Changing backhaul will still leave you interleaved. It will actually start the clock again on it being removed.
If the OP migrated to the same Openreach product IE 80/20 40/10 ect and was previously BT WBMC then NO DLM reset would occur, I know this from personal experience i migrated from plusnot to Zen same product same address and the same back haul WBMC, If i had been provisioned on GEA  it would have caused a reset which is what also happened when after around 2 yrs Zen migrated my circuit to their GEA, DLM reset, same when the migrated it back to WBMC again , each time it took around 14 days to get G.inp back fastpath i think took around 7-10 days both times
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 03:31:54 PM by tommy45 »
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N0STIE

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2020, 08:21:58 PM »

If the OP migrated to the same Openreach product IE 80/20 40/10 ect and was previously BT WBMC then NO DLM reset would occur, I know this from personal experience i migrated from plusnot to Zen same product same address and the same back haul WBMC, If i had been provisioned on GEA  it would have caused a reset which is what also happened when after around 2 yrs Zen migrated my circuit to their GEA, DLM reset, same when the migrated it back to WBMC again , each time it took around 14 days to get G.inp back fastpath i think took around 7-10 days both times

I am not sure if I was on WBMC with Plusnet, but if I was and then switched from 80/20 to Zen's 40/10 WBMC then no DLM reset in this case as far as I understand? My migration to GEA has been approved by Zen so I can get migrated any time so then DLM reset will occur? But it will be interleaved by default anyway?
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spaace

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2020, 08:35:00 PM »

interleave will apply with a dlm reset, for me it was off within 36 hours both times ive had resets.
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N0STIE

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2020, 04:51:57 AM »

Good news!

At around 2am my line resynced at 39993/9995 (strange right?) and finally removed interleaving.

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.192.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    11 ms    12 ms    11 ms  vt1.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.22]
  3    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  ae-4.pe1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.0]
  4    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  vl-50.ae6.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.57]
  5    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  195.66.227.114
  6    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  151.101.192.81

Trace complete.

I am curious what has changed since resync? If you compare the above trace route without interleaving there are only 6 hops and before the sync (trace route below) with interleaving on there were 7 hops and seems like 2nd, 3rd, 4th hops are different? Zen haven't migrated me to GEA yet. Anyway latency is now good but I was getting 9-10ms with PN so if I get migrated to GEA, may I achieve 1-2ms lower? It can't be worse if I get moved to GEA right?

Thanks guys

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.192.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.24]
  3    23 ms    26 ms    21 ms  ae-5.pe2.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.100]
  4    24 ms    19 ms    19 ms  ae-1.pe1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.94]
  5    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  vl-50.ae6.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.57]
  6    19 ms    20 ms    19 ms  195.66.227.114
  7    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  151.101.192.81

Trace complete.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2020, 09:11:48 AM »

Routing changes, less congestion / load balancing so it was able to take more direct route?

It could equally be cosmetic as traceroute is only ever a rough guide as you can pass over routers transparently depending on how things are configured.  Plus as you can see below, hops aren't everything.  Talk Talk Business backhaul seems more direct but latency is actually worse than you're getting.

Code: [Select]
traceroute to bbc.co.uk (151.101.0.81) from Zen, 18 hops max, 48 byte packets
 1  losubs.subs.bng1.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.80.17)  14.021 ms  21.987 ms  13.167 ms
 2  ae1-177.cr2.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.80.38)  13.363 ms  16.488 ms  13.444 ms
 3  ip81-59.fastly-gw1.lonap.net (5.57.81.59)  26.291 ms  13.621 ms  20.924 ms
 4  151.101.0.81 (151.101.0.81)  13.412 ms  26.014 ms  13.239 ms

Code: [Select]
traceroute to bbc.co.uk (151.101.0.81) from Plusnet, 18 hops max, 48 byte packets
 1  250.core.plus.net (195.166.130.250)  15.372 ms  16.367 ms  15.489 ms
 2  84.93.253.83 (84.93.253.83)  16.198 ms  16.361 ms  16.114 ms
 3  core1-be1.colindale.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.125.132)  15.919 ms  16.519 ms  15.587 ms
 4  194.72.16.60 (194.72.16.60)  16.261 ms  16.547 ms  16.838 ms
 5  * * *
 6  151.101.0.81 (151.101.0.81)  16.637 ms  16.627 ms  16.375 ms
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Exchange: INTAKE (ECI) ISP/Modems: Zen (Home Hub 5A running OpenWrt) + Plusnet (VMG-3925-B10B) + Three (Hauwei B535-232)
Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD

mofa2020

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2020, 10:01:26 AM »

Good news!

At around 2am my line resynced at 39993/9995 (strange right?) and finally removed interleaving.

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.192.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    11 ms    12 ms    11 ms  vt1.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.22]
  3    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  ae-4.pe1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.0]
  4    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  vl-50.ae6.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.57]
  5    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  195.66.227.114
  6    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  151.101.192.81

Trace complete.

I am curious what has changed since resync? If you compare the above trace route without interleaving there are only 6 hops and before the sync (trace route below) with interleaving on there were 7 hops and seems like 2nd, 3rd, 4th hops are different? Zen haven't migrated me to GEA yet. Anyway latency is now good but I was getting 9-10ms with PN so if I get migrated to GEA, may I achieve 1-2ms lower? It can't be worse if I get moved to GEA right?

Thanks guys

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.192.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.24]
  3    23 ms    26 ms    21 ms  ae-5.pe2.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.100]
  4    24 ms    19 ms    19 ms  ae-1.pe1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.94]
  5    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  vl-50.ae6.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.57]
  6    19 ms    20 ms    19 ms  195.66.227.114
  7    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  151.101.192.81

Trace complete.

Congratulations, these are good news to wake on. I do not think that removing interleave actually the cause of changing the hops rather than the resync. itself, changing the routes would help depending on # of hops and the condition of the route, in my country there is only one route from the city I live in to capital so you can imagine how congested it is, that would cause more ping and speed problems even when the hops are few with being interleaved too so it is a mess even the ping is not stable for online playing with ping spikes and packet loss..  :(
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spaace

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2020, 11:20:11 AM »

Good news!

At around 2am my line resynced at 39993/9995 (strange right?) and finally removed interleaving.

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.192.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    11 ms    12 ms    11 ms  vt1.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.22]
  3    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  ae-4.pe1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.0]
  4    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  vl-50.ae6.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.57]
  5    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  195.66.227.114
  6    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  151.101.192.81

Trace complete.

I am curious what has changed since resync? If you compare the above trace route without interleaving there are only 6 hops and before the sync (trace route below) with interleaving on there were 7 hops and seems like 2nd, 3rd, 4th hops are different? Zen haven't migrated me to GEA yet. Anyway latency is now good but I was getting 9-10ms with PN so if I get migrated to GEA, may I achieve 1-2ms lower? It can't be worse if I get moved to GEA right?

Thanks guys

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.192.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.24]
  3    23 ms    26 ms    21 ms  ae-5.pe2.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.100]
  4    24 ms    19 ms    19 ms  ae-1.pe1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.94]
  5    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  vl-50.ae6.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.57]
  6    19 ms    20 ms    19 ms  195.66.227.114
  7    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  151.101.192.81

Trace complete.

as the second hop 9first on the isp) is different it will be different routing. was 11ms same as PN?
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N0STIE

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2020, 02:30:14 PM »

as the second hop 9first on the isp) is different it will be different routing. was 11ms same as PN?

With PN 1st hop or 2nd was usually 9ms and final hop 9-10ms. I can tell the difference in games on the same servers I played while on PN. With Zen it is around 2-3ms higher. Not a big deal but still.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 03:38:14 PM by N0STIE »
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spaace

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2020, 05:04:02 PM »

think it is in your head if you can feel 1 or 2 ms difference :)
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N0STIE

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2020, 06:20:29 PM »

think it is in your head if you can feel 1 or 2 ms difference :)

I just like to see lower number  ;D
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g3uiss

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2020, 06:29:03 PM »

Unless Iím past it, I canít see any connection between interleaving and routing. Save for the fact when a resync occurs you will get a new session, that might take a different route.

However if you were to keep dropping the DSL the DLM will interleave you and or,  band your connection.

If your using a separate router you could drop the PPP and see if you can improve the 1/2 ms delay. However it might not be good for your wellbeing  ;D

If it were me with a connection like that, I would just be very happy  :P
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N0STIE

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2020, 12:45:52 AM »

Unless Iím past it, I canít see any connection between interleaving and routing. Save for the fact when a resync occurs you will get a new session, that might take a different route.

However if you were to keep dropping the DSL the DLM will interleave you and or,  band your connection.

If your using a separate router you could drop the PPP and see if you can improve the 1/2 ms delay. However it might not be good for your wellbeing  ;D

If it were me with a connection like that, I would just be very happy  :P

You're right. There is nothing to complain about considering how our network infrastructure is. I am happy overall, just trying to get to know if my latency can be improved further if used to be lower.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 06:27:31 AM by N0STIE »
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N0STIE

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2020, 08:39:04 AM »

I'll ask Zen to move me to their GEA, if it turns out worse than WBMC I can always go back..

Oh and this is interesting, I dropped PPP session few times by pressing "disconnect" on my D7000 and it reduced the latency to 10-11ms, I believe it didn't drop DSL because when I clicked 'connect' internet went back in like 2 seconds? And DSL stats seem to be the same. I believe it takes about a minute to connect back to internet if DSL is dropped.
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