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Author Topic: Switch over from PN to Zen issue  (Read 4688 times)

CarlT

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  • Next generation network design and deployment
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #90 on: March 05, 2020, 03:23:40 PM »

That's not bad given where you are.

traceroute to bbc.co.uk (151.101.64.81), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  0.275 ms * *
 2  172.16.13.185 (172.16.13.185)  1.703 ms  1.559 ms  1.493 ms
 3  * * *
 4  31.55.187.180 (31.55.187.180)  7.083 ms  7.507 ms  7.447 ms
 5  core1-hu0-2-0-1.southbank.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.14)  7.624 ms  7.672 ms  7.706 ms
 6  peer8-et-3-0-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.252.182)  7.925 ms  8.006 ms  8.089 ms
 7  * * *
 8  151.101.64.81 (151.101.64.81)  6.973 ms  6.993 ms  6.993 ms
Logged
WiFi: Nighthawk® AX12 RAX120 - 5Gb uplink
Routing: Ubiquiti UDM Pro - 10Gb uplink
Switching: 2 * Mikrotik CRS305-1G-4S-IN, 10Gb uplinks, various cheap and cheerful
ONT: Huawei 1+1
Exchange: Wakefield
ISP: BT Full Fibre 900. Yes, BT, I know.

N0STIE

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  • Posts: 363
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #91 on: March 05, 2020, 06:32:32 PM »

That's not bad given where you are.

traceroute to bbc.co.uk (151.101.64.81), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  0.275 ms * *
 2  172.16.13.185 (172.16.13.185)  1.703 ms  1.559 ms  1.493 ms
 3  * * *
 4  31.55.187.180 (31.55.187.180)  7.083 ms  7.507 ms  7.447 ms
 5  core1-hu0-2-0-1.southbank.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.14)  7.624 ms  7.672 ms  7.706 ms
 6  peer8-et-3-0-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.252.182)  7.925 ms  8.006 ms  8.089 ms
 7  * * *
 8  151.101.64.81 (151.101.64.81)  6.973 ms  6.993 ms  6.993 ms

This is great and with BT wow. Apparently this sort of latency is something I'll never be able to see on my eyes :(
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N0STIE

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #92 on: March 08, 2020, 09:54:22 PM »

With my pure curiosity I decided to compare my Zen FTTC connection with 11ms base latency to my friends 9ms base latency Enta.net full fibre (500/500) and he lives in the same city. If you look at the trace routes, despite very similar base latency 2ms difference and EXACTLY THE SAME routing my latency is 8-9ms higher to the same host? There are some other few example but I am going to show you one of them. I can't understand why is that. Can anyone explain?

My Zen's trace route:

Tracing route to luxhosting.nl [37.221.209.105]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  ARCHER_VR600 [192.168.1.1]
  2    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  losubs.subs.bng1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.17]
  3    11 ms    11 ms    12 ms  ae1-176.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.36]
  4    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  linx-224.retn.net [195.66.224.193]
  5    40 ms    40 ms    41 ms  ae0-8.RT.BIX.BUD.HU.retn.net [87.245.232.159]
  6    42 ms    42 ms    42 ms  retn.deninet.hu [217.113.61.208]
  7    43 ms    42 ms    43 ms  te8-4-413.c6509-core-4.atw.hu [88.151.96.140]
  8    42 ms    43 ms    45 ms  88.151.96.212
  9    42 ms    42 ms    42 ms  88.151.96.218
 10    42 ms    42 ms    43 ms  37.221.209.105

Trace complete.
-------------------------------
My friend's enta.net:

Tracing route to luxhosting.nl [37.221.209.105]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms   10.10.0.1
  2    9 ms    9 ms    10 ms  10.100.33.149
  3    9 ms    9 ms    9 ms  bundle-ether101.telehouse-east4.core.enta.net [188.39.127.149]
  4    9 ms    9 ms    9 ms  linx-224.retn.net [195.66.224.193]
  5    38 ms    38 ms    38 ms  ae0-8.RT.BIX.BUD.HU.retn.net [87.245.232.159]
  6    34 ms    35ms    34ms  retn.deninet.hu [217.113.61.208]
  7    35 ms    34 ms    34 ms  te8-4-413.c6509-core-4.atw.hu [88.151.96.140]
  8    35 ms    34 ms    35 ms  88.151.96.212
  9    34 ms    35 ms    34 ms  88.151.96.218
 10    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  37.221.209.105

Trace complete.
Logged

CarlT

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #93 on: March 08, 2020, 10:51:14 PM »

This is great and with BT wow. Apparently this sort of latency is something I'll never be able to see on my eyes :(

FTTP so you will see it at some point soon.  :)
Logged
WiFi: Nighthawk® AX12 RAX120 - 5Gb uplink
Routing: Ubiquiti UDM Pro - 10Gb uplink
Switching: 2 * Mikrotik CRS305-1G-4S-IN, 10Gb uplinks, various cheap and cheerful
ONT: Huawei 1+1
Exchange: Wakefield
ISP: BT Full Fibre 900. Yes, BT, I know.

CarlT

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  • Next generation network design and deployment
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #94 on: March 08, 2020, 10:53:36 PM »

Your extra latency on the trace appears to be due to the return path. However Zen are advertising their network the route back to you is adding some latency.
Logged
WiFi: Nighthawk® AX12 RAX120 - 5Gb uplink
Routing: Ubiquiti UDM Pro - 10Gb uplink
Switching: 2 * Mikrotik CRS305-1G-4S-IN, 10Gb uplinks, various cheap and cheerful
ONT: Huawei 1+1
Exchange: Wakefield
ISP: BT Full Fibre 900. Yes, BT, I know.

N0STIE

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  • Posts: 363
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #95 on: March 08, 2020, 11:00:59 PM »

Your extra latency on the trace appears to be due to the return path. However Zen are advertising their network the route back to you is adding some latency.

Any way to trace route back to me?
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2020, 04:30:51 AM »

Any way to trace route back to me?

No.  As we discussed before traceroute is an educated guess only.

Each of those hosts may take a completely different route back and that can only be determined by tracing FROM each host, which is still an educated guess anyway.

Think yourself lucky:
Code: [Select]
1  losubs.subs.bng1.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.80.17)  14.783 ms  13.432 ms  22.349 ms
 2  ae1-176.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.80.36)  22.116 ms  13.165 ms  13.414 ms
 3  linx-224.retn.net (195.66.224.193)  23.184 ms  13.827 ms  20.131 ms
 4  ae0-8.RT.BIX.BUD.HU.retn.net (87.245.232.159)  45.712 ms  49.576 ms  48.469 ms
 5  retn.deninet.hu (217.113.61.208)  44.957 ms  45.987 ms  52.089 ms
 6  te8-4-413.c6509-core-4.atw.hu (88.151.96.140)  52.357 ms  45.908 ms  48.537 ms
 7  88.151.96.212 (88.151.96.212)  55.510 ms  49.690 ms  49.195 ms
 8  88.151.96.218 (88.151.96.218)  52.381 ms  45.818 ms  50.659 ms
 9  37.221.209.105 (37.221.209.105)  50.122 ms  53.362 ms  52.602 ms

Code: [Select]
1  254.core.plus.net (195.166.130.254)  17.270 ms  19.298 ms  17.767 ms
 2  84.93.253.115 (84.93.253.115)  17.958 ms  17.632 ms  18.047 ms
 3  195.99.125.138 (195.99.125.138)  18.175 ms  18.274 ms  18.189 ms
 4  peer3-et-7-0-5.redbus.ukcore.bt.net (62.172.103.254)  18.182 ms  18.298 ms
    peer7-et-4-0-5.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (194.72.16.130)  17.951 ms
 5  * 109.159.253.21 (109.159.253.21)  18.218 ms  18.409 ms
 6  ae0-8.RT.BIX.BUD.HU.retn.net (87.245.232.159)  45.123 ms  45.990 ms  46.661 ms
 7  retn.deninet.hu (217.113.61.208)  50.291 ms  51.410 ms  50.075 ms
 8  te8-4-413.c6509-core-4.atw.hu (88.151.96.140)  52.067 ms  51.476 ms  51.689 ms
 9  88.151.96.212 (88.151.96.212)  49.354 ms  50.115 ms  50.535 ms
10  88.151.96.218 (88.151.96.218)  50.015 ms  49.197 ms  49.407 ms
11  37.221.209.105 (37.221.209.105)  50.052 ms  50.072 ms  50.265 ms
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 04:35:28 AM by Alex Atkin UK »
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Exchange: INTAKE (ECI DSLAM) Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) ISP/Modems: Zen (Home Hub 5A running OpenWrt) + Plusnet (VMG-3925-B10B) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD

N0STIE

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  • Posts: 363
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #97 on: March 12, 2020, 02:14:51 AM »

No.  As we discussed before traceroute is an educated guess only.

Each of those hosts may take a completely different route back and that can only be determined by tracing FROM each host, which is still an educated guess anyway.

Think yourself lucky:
Code: [Select]
1  losubs.subs.bng1.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.80.17)  14.783 ms  13.432 ms  22.349 ms
 2  ae1-176.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.80.36)  22.116 ms  13.165 ms  13.414 ms
 3  linx-224.retn.net (195.66.224.193)  23.184 ms  13.827 ms  20.131 ms
 4  ae0-8.RT.BIX.BUD.HU.retn.net (87.245.232.159)  45.712 ms  49.576 ms  48.469 ms
 5  retn.deninet.hu (217.113.61.208)  44.957 ms  45.987 ms  52.089 ms
 6  te8-4-413.c6509-core-4.atw.hu (88.151.96.140)  52.357 ms  45.908 ms  48.537 ms
 7  88.151.96.212 (88.151.96.212)  55.510 ms  49.690 ms  49.195 ms
 8  88.151.96.218 (88.151.96.218)  52.381 ms  45.818 ms  50.659 ms
 9  37.221.209.105 (37.221.209.105)  50.122 ms  53.362 ms  52.602 ms

Code: [Select]
1  254.core.plus.net (195.166.130.254)  17.270 ms  19.298 ms  17.767 ms
 2  84.93.253.115 (84.93.253.115)  17.958 ms  17.632 ms  18.047 ms
 3  195.99.125.138 (195.99.125.138)  18.175 ms  18.274 ms  18.189 ms
 4  peer3-et-7-0-5.redbus.ukcore.bt.net (62.172.103.254)  18.182 ms  18.298 ms
    peer7-et-4-0-5.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (194.72.16.130)  17.951 ms
 5  * 109.159.253.21 (109.159.253.21)  18.218 ms  18.409 ms
 6  ae0-8.RT.BIX.BUD.HU.retn.net (87.245.232.159)  45.123 ms  45.990 ms  46.661 ms
 7  retn.deninet.hu (217.113.61.208)  50.291 ms  51.410 ms  50.075 ms
 8  te8-4-413.c6509-core-4.atw.hu (88.151.96.140)  52.067 ms  51.476 ms  51.689 ms
 9  88.151.96.212 (88.151.96.212)  49.354 ms  50.115 ms  50.535 ms
10  88.151.96.218 (88.151.96.218)  50.015 ms  49.197 ms  49.407 ms
11  37.221.209.105 (37.221.209.105)  50.052 ms  50.072 ms  50.265 ms

Now, I think I should :)

Goal achieved when plugged in Netgear D7800 with Lantiq chipset. I am having another issue though.. single threaded download is about half of my speed (30-50mbps on various speedtests).

Pinging bbc.co.uk [151.101.64.81] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=60
Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=60
Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=60
Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=60

Ping statistics for 151.101.64.81:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 9ms, Maximum = 10ms, Average = 10ms
Logged

Alex Atkin UK

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    • My Broadband History
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #98 on: March 15, 2020, 08:48:36 AM »

A rare sessions esablished via Manchester instead of London.
Code: [Select]
1  lo1.subs.bng1.wh-man.zen.net.uk (62.3.89.162)  7.561 ms  5.989 ms  5.661 ms
 2  ae5-161.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk (62.3.86.13)  17.315 ms  6.183 ms  6.036 ms
 3  ae3-0.cr2.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.80.58)  15.477 ms  13.315 ms  13.408 ms
 4  ip81-60.fastly-gw2.lonap.net (5.57.81.60)  13.175 ms  15.331 ms  14.262 ms
 5  151.101.192.81 (151.101.192.81)  13.354 ms  15.177 ms  13.202 ms
Logged
Exchange: INTAKE (ECI DSLAM) Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) ISP/Modems: Zen (Home Hub 5A running OpenWrt) + Plusnet (VMG-3925-B10B) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD

Starman

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  • Posts: 175
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #99 on: March 25, 2020, 04:49:36 PM »

Moved from PN to Zen this week myself too - if your interested
Code: [Select]
Tracing route to 151.101.192.81 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  gateway [192.168.1.254]
  2     9 ms     9 ms     9 ms  vt1.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.22]
  3    10 ms     8 ms     9 ms  ae-4.pe1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.0]
  4     9 ms     8 ms     9 ms  vl-50.ae-6.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.57]
  5     8 ms     9 ms     8 ms  195.66.227.114
  6     9 ms     8 ms     9 ms  151.101.192.81

Trace complete.
Logged

underzone

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #100 on: March 25, 2020, 05:48:03 PM »

I saw the TBB graph that you posted on another thread Starman



Is that the actual day of switchover?
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Plusnet 80/20, Huawei 288, Zyxel VMG8924-B10A (bridge mode with 1500 MTU, thanks to johnson), pfSense x64

Alex Atkin UK

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  • Posts: 1159
    • My Broadband History
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #101 on: March 25, 2020, 06:06:11 PM »

I saw the TBB graph that you posted on another thread Starman



Is that the actual day of switchover?

Unlikely as it wouldn't be seamless like that as you'd have to change the IP address on TBB.
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Exchange: INTAKE (ECI DSLAM) Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) ISP/Modems: Zen (Home Hub 5A running OpenWrt) + Plusnet (VMG-3925-B10B) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD

nfxcr3w

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  • Posts: 98
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #102 on: March 25, 2020, 06:44:21 PM »

That's not bad given where you are.

traceroute to bbc.co.uk (151.101.64.81), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  0.275 ms * *
 2  172.16.13.185 (172.16.13.185)  1.703 ms  1.559 ms  1.493 ms
 3  * * *
 4  31.55.187.180 (31.55.187.180)  7.083 ms  7.507 ms  7.447 ms
 5  core1-hu0-2-0-1.southbank.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.14)  7.624 ms  7.672 ms  7.706 ms
 6  peer8-et-3-0-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.252.182)  7.925 ms  8.006 ms  8.089 ms
 7  * * *
 8  151.101.64.81 (151.101.64.81)  6.973 ms  6.993 ms  6.993 ms

Similar to mine  :)

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.0.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms [192.168.1.1]
  2     5 ms     4 ms     5 ms  172.16.10.235
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     6 ms     6 ms     5 ms  31.55.185.180
  5     5 ms     7 ms     5 ms  core2-hu0-16-0-7.colindale.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.192.42]
  6     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  peer8-et-0-1-4.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.252.106]
  7     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  195.99.126.83
  8     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  151.101.0.81
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Starman

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #103 on: March 25, 2020, 07:16:00 PM »

Is that the actual day of switchover?

Sadly no - My switch over was Monday morning and I only remembered to update TBB graph yesterday evening you can see the re-sync this morning which is slowing bumping my speed back to where it was prior with G.INP and 3db STNR
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j0hn

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Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #104 on: March 25, 2020, 10:39:31 PM »

Unlikely as it wouldn't be seamless like that as you'd have to change the IP address on TBB.

TBB BQM's now work with hostnames not just IP's.

DYN DNS means with my dynamic IP my BQM always updates instantly.
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