Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8

Author Topic: Switch over from PN to Zen issue  (Read 4691 times)

N0STIE

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #75 on: March 03, 2020, 02:25:47 AM »

*UPDATE after migration to GEA*

Latency is now terrible unless I have 16ms delay due to DLM but I guess it only is 8ms. I have no idea how they advertise themselves as a gaming ISP. Not happy at all and angry at the same time. They can't offer anything beneficial to customer expect their customer service.

Not saying the latency to London is either 18ms or 25ms? How come? It has always been the same e.g 10-11ms on fast path or 18ms interleaved. Ping to other european hosts is +6ms higher considering that my line is currently interleaved so that makes it 14ms higher in total comparing to WBMC and around 20ms higher comparing to PlusNet (I wish I was with you now). Now I can only blame myself that I left good ISP for bad and expensive one  :(

Just have a look. The last traceroute is to .DE server which shows 42ms, in fact it is 50ms in game and with PlusNet I was getting 30ms to the exactly same IP. So what has changed?

I don't want to say final word now but I am not hoping someting will change. My latency to hosts further away than Germany is above 60ms - complete joke. Used to be 25ms to .DE, now it is 40-50ms.

Note - as I said above, latency to London based host was ALWAYS 10-11ms, now it differs by 8ms? 25ms to google, still 11ms to bbc but used to be 11ms to google as well

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.128.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  losubs.subs.bng1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.17]
  3    19 ms    19 ms    18 ms  ae1-177.cr2.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.38]
  4    25 ms    25 ms    25 ms  ip81-59.fastly-gw1.lonap.net [5.57.81.59]
  5    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  151.101.128.81

Trace complete.

----------------------

Tracing route to dns.google [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    37 ms    18 ms    18 ms  losubs.subs.bng1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.17]
  3    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  ae1-177.cr2.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.38]
  4    26 ms    26 ms    25 ms  72.14.223.28
  5    27 ms    27 ms    27 ms  209.85.249.149
  6    26 ms    26 ms    25 ms  172.253.65.211
  7    25 ms    25 ms    25 ms  dns.google [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

--------------------------

Tracing route to hosted-by.hiperz.com [85.114.146.48]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    36 ms    18 ms    18 ms  losubs.subs.bng1.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.17]
  3    19 ms    18 ms    18 ms  ae1-177.cr2.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.38]
  4    25 ms    81 ms    67 ms  vl-50.ae-5.pe2.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.54]
  5    25 ms    29 ms    26 ms  ae-1.pe2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.97]
  6    26 ms    33 ms    26 ms  ae-14.cor1.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.27]
  7    27 ms    26 ms    31 ms  ae-15.agg1.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.28]
  8    25 ms    25 ms    26 ms  ldn-b9-link.telia.net [62.115.169.134]
  9    41 ms    41 ms    41 ms  ldn-bb3-link.telia.net [62.115.117.6]
 10    41 ms    40 ms    41 ms  prs-bb3-link.telia.net [62.115.134.92]
 11    41 ms    41 ms     *     ffm-bb1-link.telia.net [62.115.123.12]
 12    42 ms    42 ms    40 ms  ffm-b5-link.telia.net [62.115.114.89]
 13    31 ms    35 ms    32 ms  ae10-0.fra10.core-backbone.com [62.115.9.226]
 14    57 ms    38 ms    38 ms  ae1-2071.dus10.core-backbone.com [80.255.14.58]
 15    44 ms    44 ms    43 ms  po13q402-h8491.core1-dus-ix.bb.as24961.net [81.95.2.114]
 16    41 ms    42 ms    42 ms  po8.core2-dus1.bb.as24961.net [62.141.47.20]
 17    44 ms    44 ms    45 ms  eth1-1.ipcar.bb.as24961.net [62.141.47.106]
 18    42 ms    42 ms    42 ms  hosted-by.hiperz.com [85.114.146.48]

Trace complete.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 02:43:39 AM by N0STIE »
Logged

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2863
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #76 on: March 03, 2020, 10:34:13 AM »

They have zero control of the DLM.

It was mentioned multiple times that the DLM is reset when you switch to GEA and that brings 8ms additional delay from Interleaving.

You can't blame the ISP for what was essentially your choice.
Logged

CarlT

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1589
  • Next generation network design and deployment
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #77 on: March 03, 2020, 10:47:30 AM »

RBX = 59100 Roubaix, Nord-Pas-de-Calais-Picardie, France
SBG = Alsace Tourisme, Grand'Rue, 67000 Strasbourg, France

Roubaix is right on the Belgian border, Strasbourg is the best part of 500 kilometres away on the German border and probably further in terms of fibre route.

I'm not aware of how OVH handle routing on their network but either way the delay makes sense, and the path probably isn't asymmetrical in this case as the two will likely only connect in London and OVH will prefer that if they can, it's just distance.
Logged
WiFi: Nighthawk® AX12 RAX120 - 5Gb uplink
Routing: Ubiquiti UDM Pro - 10Gb uplink
Switching: 2 * Mikrotik CRS305-1G-4S-IN, 10Gb uplinks, various cheap and cheerful
ONT: Huawei 1+1
Exchange: Wakefield
ISP: BT Full Fibre 900. Yes, BT, I know.

N0STIE

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #78 on: March 03, 2020, 10:49:02 AM »

They have zero control of the DLM.

It was mentioned multiple times that the DLM is reset when you switch to GEA and that brings 8ms additional delay from Interleaving.

You can't blame the ISP for what was essentially your choice.

Of course j0hn, I am not blaming them for DLM, I know it will eventually be removed in the next 48-72 hrs but after that my latency will still be higher than on WBMC unless DLM adds latency further on the hops. It was my choice but what they said was "latency won't be worse, it can only get better, because everything is router via our network".

I just don't understand how has the latency double to UK hosts even on fast path comparing to WBMC which has always been 11ms
Logged

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
    • My Broadband History
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2020, 03:56:33 PM »

Of course j0hn, I am not blaming them for DLM, I know it will eventually be removed in the next 48-72 hrs but after that my latency will still be higher than on WBMC unless DLM adds latency further on the hops. It was my choice but what they said was "latency won't be worse, it can only get better, because everything is router via our network".

I just don't understand how has the latency double to UK hosts even on fast path comparing to WBMC which has always been 11ms

I'm just surprised you went ahead seeing as it had already been suggested that latency would likely be higher on GEA with Zen.

Your latency with Plusnet seemed atypically low, but latency isn't everything.  Zen aim to have a zero contention network, which I'd think is more important.  My personal experience was that while Plusnet is lower latency than Zen, running a VPN over Plusnet I was getting far more packet loss than on Zen.
Logged
Exchange: INTAKE (ECI DSLAM) Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) ISP/Modems: Zen (Home Hub 5A running OpenWrt) + Plusnet (VMG-3925-B10B) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD

N0STIE

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #80 on: March 03, 2020, 09:01:24 PM »

I'm just surprised you went ahead seeing as it had already been suggested that latency would likely be higher on GEA with Zen.

Your latency with Plusnet seemed atypically low, but latency isn't everything.  Zen aim to have a zero contention network, which I'd think is more important.  My personal experience was that while Plusnet is lower latency than Zen, running a VPN over Plusnet I was getting far more packet loss than on Zen.

Their aim to have zero contention network isn't even close to what I was getting previously being on WBMC. After this migration I can't even stream in 480p, speed test only showing 15mbps and 120ms jitter all the time. Well congested network they have. Just terrible ISP. I am going to pay the cancellation fee and leave this ISP. Going back to PN - no issues for 12 months straight.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 09:27:16 PM by N0STIE »
Logged

g3uiss

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 466
  • You never too old to learn
    • Midas Solutions
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #81 on: March 03, 2020, 10:01:17 PM »

Are your speeds below hand back. I thought your issues were over latency well explained in the thread, now it’s bandwidth, although you know the DLM will take a few days to sort out. In my humble opinion Zen outweigh PN by a country mile and I have both
Logged
Zen FTTC and Plusnet ADSL HG612 modems with Vigor 2925

N0STIE

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #82 on: March 03, 2020, 10:41:12 PM »

Are your speeds below hand back. I thought your issues were over latency well explained in the thread, now it’s bandwidth, although you know the DLM will take a few days to sort out. In my humble opinion Zen outweigh PN by a country mile and I have both

Now it is actually both. Strange coincidence OR engineer knocked at my door today and asked me if everything is fine with my broadband and phone? Then he said he is going to check my connection in the PCP and will come back but he didn't.
Logged

mofa2020

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #83 on: March 03, 2020, 11:15:16 PM »

Guess it is a ZEN's issue with GEA which makes the speed and connection quality like 120ms jutter and ping too bad, unless your attainable / sync. speed and other line stats showing a line fault like what OR engineer was asking about it is no physical issue.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 11:38:17 PM by mofa2020 »
Logged

N0STIE

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #84 on: March 03, 2020, 11:57:38 PM »

Guess it is a ZEN's issue with GEA which makes the speed and connection quality like 120ms jutter and ping too bad, unless your attainable / sync. speed and other line stats showing a line fault like what OR engineer was asking about it is no physical issue.

Don't really know why would he come to my house and ask about it (would he know that my line was migrated to GEA?) I didn't lose sync. It is still 40000/9995 with interleaving on after migration to GEA. I've noticed the speed and jitter issues starting to appear early evening till 10pm. No problems throughout the day and in the middle of the night. Anyway they need to resolve this asap as streaming above 480p is impossible and that is what my household usually do at evenings. I don't wanna hear complains every day such as (Why have you switched to worse ISP etc.)

I am waiting for DLM to remove delay but it might actually take longer as I needed to reboot my piece of junk (D7000 v2) due to it freezing. VR600 is on the way. I'd also try D7800 but its design is exactly the same so for sure same overheating issue. Not taking a gamble.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 12:02:58 AM by N0STIE »
Logged

mofa2020

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #85 on: March 04, 2020, 10:01:12 AM »

I've noticed the speed and jitter issues starting to appear early evening till 10pm. No problems throughout the day and in the middle of the night. Anyway they need to resolve this asap as streaming above 480p is impossible and that is what my household usually do at evenings.

This is an ISP issue with congestion on GEA "routing", I am outside UK but some nights I have the same exact issue where Youtube 240p would hardly work around the time it happens to you..

You said you will request a migration to WBMC again if GEA makes things worse, that would at least fix current issues waiting for DLM to remove interleave.
Logged

N0STIE

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2020, 12:19:24 PM »

This is an ISP issue with congestion on GEA "routing", I am outside UK but some nights I have the same exact issue where Youtube 240p would hardly work around the time it happens to you..

You said you will request a migration to WBMC again if GEA makes things worse, that would at least fix current issues waiting for DLM to remove interleave.

Zen tech support said the congestion issue could be due to pending regrade to 80/20. Funniest thing is they claim that migration to GEA has been delayed and isn't completed yet :) I don't know what they are thinking
Logged

mofa2020

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2020, 07:51:04 PM »

Zen tech support said the congestion issue could be due to pending regrade to 80/20.

I do not believe that the pending 80/20 actually causing the jitter, high latency or slow speed and even 15mb "which is weird to have while line sync. is 40/10" can run 1080p with no problem if and only if the ISP side is working properly if not properly 100mb sync. would do nothing,, this is really non sense.

Funniest thing is they claim that migration to GEA has been delayed and isn't completed yet :) I don't know what they are thinking

So they would tell you that you are still on WBMC if you ask them,, OMG I hate ISPs with such weird answers.
Logged

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
    • My Broadband History
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #88 on: March 04, 2020, 09:10:12 PM »

So they would tell you that you are still on WBMC if you ask them,, OMG I hate ISPs with such weird answers.

While I agree its annoying, we know from experience that often this is Openreach being slow to report back to the ISP that changes have been made.

As for GEA being worse, I'd think jitter and throttling is a damn good argument for Zen to migrate back, even if they might nor normally do so.  Of course this can't happen until the order for GEA is confirmed as complete.
Logged
Exchange: INTAKE (ECI DSLAM) Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) ISP/Modems: Zen (Home Hub 5A running OpenWrt) + Plusnet (VMG-3925-B10B) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD

N0STIE

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Switch over from PN to Zen issue
« Reply #89 on: March 05, 2020, 01:47:19 PM »

VR600 v2 has arrived. Connected straight away and so far rock solid. Latency increased by 1-2ms, not a big deal so I'll stick with it for a while I guess.

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.128.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  ARCHER_VR600 [192.168.1.1]
  2    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  losubs.subs.bng2.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.21]
  3    12 ms    12 ms    11 ms  ae1-183.cr2.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.86.82]
  4    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  ip81-59.fastly-gw1.lonap.net [5.57.81.59]
  5    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  151.101.128.81

Trace complete.

Some line stats - Zen replied that regrade to 80/20 will be done in the next 24hrs

Upstream   Downstream
Current Rate (kbps)   9995   39970
Max Rate (kbps)   25493   99236
SNR Margin (dB)   18.2   23.2
Line Attenuation (dB)   12.5   7.7
Errors (pkts)   0   0
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 01:53:08 PM by N0STIE »
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8