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[Andy_D]

Hi,

We've had fibre (edit: to the cabinet) since early 2013.

I have had 80/20 before and got max synch up and down and real world 70mbps / 18mbps throughput.

Subsequently, I downgraded to 50/10 service. Now legacy I believe.

Then, fast forward to mid January 2020 and I paid the premium for 80/20.

But on synching the synch was lower than I'd seen before. Then, after receibing notification of the plusnet product change being completed I still was getting high 40mbps download.  So I called and said I don't think the product change has happened. They put in a manual request to change the product.

So, after that, the synch had been 79999 and 20000 kbps for last 20 days or more.  Their GEA test says no interference - fair enough the line doesn't seem to be dropping and has max synch.

However the most throughput I can get is 60mbps on downstream. When using a BTW speed test the IP profile is at 64.9mbps.  I have tried raising a fault and then escalating to customer advocacy but I am getting nonsense back.

Why would the IP profile be set at 64.9mbps on a 80mbps synch line?

I'll attach below the HG612 stats and GEA from the fault log.  I have been perservering with the fault ticket for over three weeks but now I am getting a little frustrated.

Expect users here may have well seen it all before?

Any pointers appreciated.

Also, why is my modem reporting 80mbps downstream and they insist it is 76.6mbps.?

Thanks.

****

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:   1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:   Upstream rate = 30189 Kbps, Downstream rate = 85968 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer:   1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:   L0
Mode:         VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:      Profile 17a
TPS-TC:         PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):    5.9       12.3
Attn(dB):    15.4       0.0
Pwr(dBm):    13.5       6.6
         VDSL2 framing
         Bearer 0
MSGc:      -6      20
B:      81      239
M:      1      1
T:      0      64
R:      6      0
S:      0.0324      0.3819
L:      21746      5028
D:      16      1
I:      88      120
N:      88      240
Q:      16      0
V:      10      0
RxQueue:      135      0
TxQueue:      27      0
G.INP Framing:      18      0
G.INP lookback:      27      0
RRC bits:      0      24
         Bearer 1
MSGc:      186      -6
B:      0      0
M:      2      0
T:      2      0
R:      16      0
S:      5.3333      0.0000
L:      48      0
D:      3      0
I:      32      0
N:      32      0
Q:      0      0
V:      0      0
RxQueue:      0      0
TxQueue:      0      0
G.INP Framing:      0      0
G.INP lookback:      0      0
RRC bits:      0      0
         Counters
         Bearer 0
OHF:      0      499372
OHFErr:      6      364
RS:      2024939952      2362707
RSCorr:      286442      0
RSUnCorr:   0      0
         Bearer 1
OHF:      87927034      0
OHFErr:      7      0
RS:      1055123673      0
RSCorr:      9      0
RSUnCorr:   74      0

         Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:      278046      0
rtx_c:      7149      0
rtx_uc:      650      0

         G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:      1      0
minEFTR:   80001      0
errFreeBits:   1723039689      0

         Bearer 0
HEC:      0      0
OCD:      0      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   2531115142      0
Data Cells:   3712998286      0
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

         Bearer 1
HEC:      0      0
OCD:      0      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   0      0
Data Cells:   0      0
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

ES:      24      326
SES:      22      0
UAS:      99      77
AS:      1412339

         Bearer 0
INP:      55.00      0.00
INPRein:   1.00      0.00
delay:      0      0
PER:      0.00      6.13
OR:      0.01      33.91
AgR:      80737.89   20033.74

         Bearer 1
INP:      4.00      0.00
INPRein:   4.00      0.00
delay:      3      0
PER:      16.06      0.01
OR:      95.62      0.01
AgR:      95.62   0.01

Bitswap:   881725/881725      90/91

Total time = 1 days 23 hours 8 min 37 sec
FEC:      366620      3
CRC:      12443      424
ES:      24      326
SES:      22      0
UAS:      99      77
LOS:      2      0
LOF:      16      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 37 sec
FEC:      32      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:      0      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 23 hours 8 min 37 sec
FEC:      11658      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:      5194      0
CRC:      0      17
ES:      0      13
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Since Link time = 16 days 8 hours 18 min 57 sec
FEC:      286442      0
CRC:      6      364
ES:      1      281
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
#


            Downstream      Upstream
General
   rtx_tx             278046             0               
   rtx_c              7149               0               
   rtx_uc             650                0               
   LEFTRS             1                  0               
   minEFTR            79991              0               
   errFreeBits        1723149489         0               
Bearer 0
   RxQueue            135                0               
   TxQueue            27                 0               
   G.INP Framing      18                 0               
   G.INP Lookback     27                 0               
   RRC Bits           0                  24             
   Interleave depth   16                 1               
   INP                55.00              0.00           
   INPRein            1.00               0.00           
   Delay              0                  0               
Bearer 1
   Interleave depth   3                  0               
   INP                4.00               0.00           
   INPRein            4.00               0.00           
   Delay              3                  0             

Stats recorded 09 Feb 2020 09:29:30

DSLAM/MSAN type:           BDCM:0xb12d / v0xb12d
Modem/router firmware:     AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode:                  VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                    Showtime
Uptime:                    16 days 8 hours 20 min 57 sec
Resyncs:                   0 (since 09 Feb 2020 09:26:56)
         
            Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     15.4      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not monitored      
Connection speed (kbps):   79999      20000
SNR margin (dB):           5.9      12.4
Power (dBm):               13.5      6.6
Interleave depth:          16      1
INP:                       55.00      0
G.INP:                     Enabled      

RSCorr/RS (%):             0.0140      0.0000
RSUnCorr/RS (%):           0.0000      0.0000
ES/hour:                   0      0



*****

GEA Test Detail
Circuit ID   NA   Service ID   BBEU09
Test Outcome   Pass
Test Outcome Code   GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0000
Description   GEA service test completed and no fault found .
Main Fault Location   OK
Sync Status   In Sync
Downstream Speed   76.6 Mbps
Upstream Speed   20.0 Mbps
Appointment Required   N
Fault Report Advised   N
NTE Power Status   PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result   Pass
Bridge Tap   Not Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress   Not Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise   Not Detected
Cross Talk   Not Detected
Estimated Line Length In Metres   415.5
Upstream Rate Assessment   Very Good
Downstream Rate Assessment   Very Good
Interference Pattern   Not Detected
Service Impact   No Impact Observed
Home Wiring Problem   Not Detected
Downstream Policing Discard Rate   0.0
Customer Traffic Level   Upstream and Downstream Traffic Detected
Technology   VDSL
Current 15Min Bin Retrains   0
Last 15Min Bin Retrains   0
DP Type   External
Profile Name   0.128M-55M Downstream 6dB, Interleaving Low - 0.128M-10M Upstream, Error Protection Off
Time Stamp   2020-01-16T12:45:00
Parameters   MIN   MAX   AVG
Down Stream Line Rate   54.9 Mbps   79.9 Mbps   68.8 Mbps
Up Stream Line Rate   9.9 Mbps   20.0 Mbps   16.3 Mbps
Up Time   864.0 Sec   900.0 Sec   899.8 Sec
Retrains   0.0   1.0   0.0
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters   Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)   Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp   2020-01-29T12:28:36Z   2020-01-29T12:43:36Z
Ingress Code Violation   0   0
Egress Code Violation   0   0
Errored Seconds   0   0
Severely Errored Seconds   0   0
Unavailable Seconds   0   0

Radius






GEA Test Detail
Circuit ID   NA   Service ID   BBEU09337947
Test Outcome   Pass
Test Outcome Code   GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0000
Description   GEA service test completed and no fault found .
Main Fault Location   OK
Sync Status   In Sync
Downstream Speed   76.6 Mbps
Upstream Speed   20.0 Mbps
Appointment Required   N
Fault Report Advised   N
NTE Power Status   PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result   Pass
Bridge Tap   Not Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress   Not Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise   Not Detected
Cross Talk   Not Detected
Estimated Line Length In Metres   415.5
Upstream Rate Assessment   Very Good
Downstream Rate Assessment   Very Good
Interference Pattern   Not Detected
Service Impact   No Impact Observed
Home Wiring Problem   Not Detected
Downstream Policing Discard Rate   0.0
Customer Traffic Level   Upstream and Downstream Traffic Detected
Technology   VDSL
Current 15Min Bin Retrains   0
Last 15Min Bin Retrains   0
DP Type   External
Profile Name   0.128M-55M Downstream 6dB, Interleaving Low - 0.128M-10M Upstream, Error Protection Off
Time Stamp   2020-01-16T12:45:00
Parameters   MIN   MAX   AVG
Down Stream Line Rate   54.9 Mbps   79.9 Mbps   68.8 Mbps
Up Stream Line Rate   9.9 Mbps   20.0 Mbps   16.3 Mbps
Up Time   864.0 Sec   900.0 Sec   899.8 Sec
Retrains   0.0   1.0   0.0
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters   Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)   Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp   2020-01-29T12:28:36Z   2020-01-29T12:43:36Z
Ingress Code Violation   0   0
Egress Code Violation   0   0
Errored Seconds   0   0
Severely Errored Seconds   0   0
Unavailable Seconds   0   0

Radius

[Andy_D]

Hi and good morning.

Ok. Being a bit more specific,as my modem synchs at 79,999 kbps downstream, I have G.inp on low according to profile:

Profile Name   0.128M-55M Downstream 6dB, Interleaving Low - 0.128M-10M Upstream, Error Protection Off
Time Stamp   2020-01-16T12:45:00

Would that mean that my IP profile ought to be 79,999 X 96.69 = 77,351kbps.  Which is what my line reported on the BTw performance tester when I had 80/20 4 or 5 years ago?

Thanks for any confirmation or otherwise guidance as to what my expectation ought to be?

[j0hn]

That tells us you don't have G.INP at all and you're only on the 55Mb package.

The DLM profile provided by a GEA test is 13 days out of date.

[Andy_D]

/Hi,

oh Yes, you're right - I noticed the time stamp but not the profile 0.128-55.

But that is not possibly true now as I would not be able to achieve low 60 mbps speed tests.  However, what is the point of plusnet sending me a GEA tests that shows how things were 2 weeks before raising an issue.

Why do you think g.inp is not activated.

My modem stats say it is on downstream?

INP:                       55.00      0
G.INP:                     Enabled      

[RealAleMadrid]

I have had similar IP profile strangeness on my line and have posted on the PlusNet forums about it at various times without getting any real answers or explanation as have other customers.

Did you intend to post 2 different GEA test results? They are identical.

There are a number factors to consider.

1. The Openreach Profile name is out of date by 13 days as @j0hn says, so it is showing your previous 55Mbps/10Mbps profile so ignore that. Note the time stamp of 2020-01-16T12:45:00 which only applies to the Profile name info.

2. Your speeds at the later time stamp of  2020-01-29T12:28:36 are 79.9Mbps and 20Mbps (The MAX values) so full sync speeds.

3. The GEA test for some unexplained reason does not show the correct sync speed but 76.6 Mbps. I have pointed this out to PlusNet but have never had a meaningful response.

4. G.INP or retransmission can have significant effect on the BT wholesale IP profile, the general consensus  is that with retransmission low the IP profile should be around 96 - 97% of sync speed  but reduced to 91 -92% with retransmission high

5. From the modem stats you have G.Inp active on downstream but the following shows retransmission high
         Bearer 0
INP:      55.00      0.00
INPRein:   1.00      0.00

Your IP profile should be at worst 79.999 x 0.91 = 72.799Mbps

Recently I had full sync speeds with retransmission high and an IP profile of 70.61Mbps which is 88.2% of sync but is about 92% of the GEA test false sync speed of 76.6Mbps

I am now on retransmission low with a sync speed of 76.980Mbps, so I should have a 96% IP profile but it is actually 70.93Mbps which is about 92%

It seems to be using the reduced sync speed value shown in the GEA test to calculate the IP profile.

One thing you can try is to get back to retransmission low, I manged to do it on my line by limiting the downstream sync rate on the modem using the command ….  xdslcmd configure --maxDataRate 60000 20000 80000   ( command is case sensitive )

You want to see INPRein = 0 as below, it works for some but not everyone and may take some time before anything changes.

                        Bearer 0
INP:            50.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00

There is something very wrong with the FTTC speed profiles lately, the IP profiles are lower than expected and the ISPs just say you are within the expected range and do nothing.

There is a long thread on the PlusNet forum which may give some more information, not sure if you are posting there. There is mention of a profile mismatch error showing up in a GEA test, here's a link to the recent posts.

https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Fibre-80-20-speed-expectations/td-p/1696023/page/5

[Andy_D]

wow, ok thanks for this info. I'll try to digest that tonight.

Yes, the duplicate GEA was a mis copy.  I only have one GEA - but am in process of requesting another.

Strange thing is, when I look over my records from 2014 when I had 80/20 product last, INP says 48 and G.inp enabled, yet at that time I got 75mbps speed tests across different servers and it was set at a 77.35mbps IP profile, which, from what I understand, is for when G.Inp is not set!

Yes, plusnet have been trying to fob me off saying it is within speed guarantee.  And I have been rebutting that the guarantee is not a cover all blanket to say they don't have to fix faults that do not cause the speed to fall below guarantee thresholds and why does the IP profile look so so wrong!

I've had to escalate to customer advocacy and now I continue to argue with them. At this stage I am starting to get fed up and consider either 1. go to zen and pay more. Do they still use BTw bras IP profile processes? or 2. pocket quite a bit of saving and try my luck with vodafone, as it will probably be no worse!

 

[ejs]

Also, why is my modem reporting 80mbps downstream and they insist it is 76.6mbps.?

This is what happens on retransmission high.

It seems to be using the reduced sync speed value shown in the GEA test to calculate the IP profile.

Yes, it always used to, but it calculated it as 96% of 76.6.

[Andy_D]

thanks ejs.  so my IP profile ought to be 73.5mbs instead of 64.9mbs. Is that not what ISPs are terming a fault these days?

If I can get the line back to Rtx low - presumably I can get the IP profile back to the 77.35 from a few years ago...

thanks for the pointers so far all.

[ejs]

You are essentially trying to raise a "slow speed" fault and getting nowhere because your speed is above your minimum guarantee. It does not really matter that it seems to about some number in some system looking "wrong" rather than it being slow for some other reason. I think the reason for the speed does not affect whether or not the speed is considered a fault.

How do any of us know what any IP profile is supposed to be? Most of us aren't in any position to know, we've just seen what other people get.

[Andy_D]

mmm. yes but a speed guarantee was not supposed to be a blanket for not fixing any fault simply because the speed does not drop below threshold.

[ejs]

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. It's not that they're not fixing the fault because the speed is above the minimum, it's that there is no fault because the speed is above the minimum.

Have you tried another modem and/or router (preferably both as you must be using separate devices)?

[Andy_D]

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. It's not that they're not fixing the fault because the speed is above the minimum, it's that there is no fault because the speed is above the minimum.

Have you tried another modem and/or router (preferably both as you must be using separate devices)?

But the outcomes of adopting a fault resolution only for speeds that fall below min guarantee  creates some nonsensical scenarios. And what about peak time speed ranges that exceed the minimum guarantee.

For a nonsensical outcome follow this through, my speed guarantee is 49.4mbs. if the IP profile was set to 49mbps ,when my line is synching at 80mbps then that is a fault. However, if it is set (incorrectly at 65mbps, 64mbps......50mbps) and I'm missing out on say 10mbps to 20mbps that is not a fault. Yet both scenarios show the same route cause and the same outcome, slower than achievable speeds. And speeds will be out of the peak range provided at sign up.


Secondly, in my case, I upgraded from a legacy 55/10 product which didn't have a speed guarantee. I received 50+mbps download throughput.  Now, with the speed guarantee on the faster product, I can't raise a fault unless the speed falls to 49.4mbps which is slower than I got on the older / slower legacy product. How can that make sense?  I say it doesn't.

I haven't tried a different router / modem. To me it seems unlikely that hardware is the problem. These have been in place for many years.  There are no drops, the synch is at max for the product.   However, I will try it if I don't make any progress but it is quite a bit of faffing given my network set up.

Two pieces of new news.  1. Today, after making this post, the BTw tester now says my IP profile has moved up to 74.1mbps.  Much more inline with what would be expected.

However, throughput speeds this evening have been terrible using the BTw tester I'm getting 20mbps down and 18mbps up and similar using Ookla Speed test on vodafone servers.  So it appears perhaps I can raise a fault for that!

2. I have a static IP address and the plusnet threads referred at some stages seem to be suggesting that may slow things down, although PN staff never seemed to categorically endorse that.

[Andy_D]

So, a small update. After a long chat with a representative yesterday, they were totally adamant that the 64.9mbps that was showing as an IP profile  (now 74.4mbps) is a red herring.

They said firstly the IP profile was no longer correct.  Then when I pushed for detail as to when this would be fixed / how long has it been faulty they then said that they have not used the ip profile as reported by BT for several years.  I pushed and pushed on this asking what form of data limit do they run without getting any real answers.

So, I'm not sure on that.

Incidentally, my line is still getting barely 20mbps despite 80mbps sync, so I have asked them to resolve this or I will move elsewhere under my guarantee.  Maybe virgin cable 100 or 200 is worth a try........our street is covered.

[Andy_D]

So the lastest ticket update I have, without any more in depth phone discussion is they have checked virtual equipment and discussed with suppliers and they can see no reason for the speed, or lack of. So they want to send an engineer out.

Really, really don't see what they are going to do at all visiting my premises but it seems it will be either i) that or ii) leave or iii) put up with 20 meg down.....

[tommy45]

Re the Reduced BTW IP profile being stuck at the lower calculation after DLM had activated the RE-TX high Profile and subsequently Reverted it to RE-TX low again, After Zen raised this with 3rd level Support at BT wholesale  they acknowledged  the problem existed re the miscalculation of IP profiles with their BRAS server and where reviewing this  within the next few weeks, and they spouted the same official scripted blurb about speeds as you had, what they seem to not understand is we are referring to THROUGHPUT not SYNC rates, throughput DATA TRANSIT back haul is controlled by BTW BRAS server which sets a bras rate on the CVLAN isp's can request this to be set manually, but that did not help me  my throughput remained around the same 71-2mbps regardless of the cvlan rate being set to 80mbps, until last night when it suddenly changed i now have the correct throughput levels again i still don't have any visibility to the BTW BRAS IP Profile the BTW will not display it, and the other one returns the same bt refused to test message
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24009.0.html