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Author Topic: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please  (Read 6937 times)

noseypete

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2020, 06:27:30 PM »

Line stats:

Board version:   Plusnet Hub One
DSL uptime:   28 days, 01:09:02
Data rate:   19999 / 79904
Maximum data rate:   28074 / 82204
Noise margin:   15.3 / 6.4
Line attenuation:   14.3 / 12.6
Signal attenuation:   14.1 / 12.8

Will be interested to see what you think is possible, mofa2020...

In other AP related news, broadband buyer recommend the Ubiquiti UAP-AC-PRO (https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/33704-ubiquiti-uap-ac-pro-cloud/ £110 ex VAT) teamed with a Draytek Vigor 2762 - apparently that is a pretty bullet proof option with an AP designed to cope with multiple devices. Real world speeds will be faster than the TP Link.

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mofa2020

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2020, 07:45:35 PM »

I see the upload speed has more room for being faster to 28074kbps but the DLM capped line sync. speed at 19999kbps and it will be capped too on the Draytek 2762 since it is your plan, for download speed I am afraid it would be the same even if you lower the SNRm and the maximum data rate increased DLM would probably cap the line on what you are paying for (in other words you can not bypass what you are paying for). SNRm tweaking would be useful in the case that the DLM sees the line not capable of what you are paying for so tweaking and squeezing the line for more speed would be worth it or if you one day think about changing to a higher plan or another ISP offering a higher plan in this case the draytek would do it job about the trying to get higher achievable speeds on the line.

for the AP and wifi I believe you are on the right track with the vigor 2762 and that will be the true difference at the moment for you.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2020, 01:40:42 AM »

In other AP related news, broadband buyer recommend the Ubiquiti UAP-AC-PRO (https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/33704-ubiquiti-uap-ac-pro-cloud/ £110 ex VAT) teamed with a Draytek Vigor 2762 - apparently that is a pretty bullet proof option with an AP designed to cope with multiple devices. Real world speeds will be faster than the TP Link.

I don't agree with that, the nanoHD is AC Wave 2 with MU-MIMO, its why I chose it over the AC-PRO which is Wave 1 SU-MIMO.
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noseypete

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2020, 08:12:23 PM »

Quote
I don't agree with that, the nanoHD is AC Wave 2 with MU-MIMO, its why I chose it over the AC-PRO which is Wave 1 SU-MIMO.

Will check that out. Only a bit more money for way more features. And physically smaller.

Think I've decided on the Vigor 2762 as a modem/router. AP now just up for debate. So - what about mesh systems? No one has mentioned them so far.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2020, 08:27:56 PM »

Will check that out. Only a bit more money for way more features. And physically smaller.

Think I've decided on the Vigor 2762 as a modem/router. AP now just up for debate. So - what about mesh systems? No one has mentioned them so far.

Mesh systems are too unpredictable, they can be great if you have no option for running a wire, but wired to the Access Point is so much more reliable.

Sure some mesh systems allow wired backhaul, but then IMO you might as well use Ubiquiti gear which is designed for business reliability vs residential mesh kit which is not.  You're less likely to need to add a second or third Access Point in the first place.

Again this is just my opinion, but I've been very impressed with the nanoHD.
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underzone

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2020, 08:38:38 PM »

I got rid of my BT Whole Home mesh Wi-Fi system with 3x discs, and replaced it with 1x ceiling mounted Ubiquiti UBI-UAP-AC-PRO (£130 from Amazon).

The Ubiquiti UAP-AC-PRO performs better for me.
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mrk26

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2020, 01:40:03 PM »

I think is worth to query what for mesh is needed if at all? If property is really big then yes, but if not why use mesh? Because of clients got poor wifi cards? I used my wifi in neighbours house cross the road, will say good 10 meters from router and it still working fine. I use asus rt-ax88u.
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noseypete

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2020, 04:39:28 PM »

Well I think that's given some good opinions on mesh! Thanks guys. Worth the question, as all I see on consumer sites is 'mesh is the future' type reviews praising Google wi-fi and so on and hardly mentioning router + AP combos.

Currently opting for Draytek 2762 with Ubiquiti nanoHD AP or the Pro. The nano's specs are better than the pro as Alex Atkin UK points out, although from some tests I'm seeing on YouTube at the expense of range.

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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2020, 09:57:32 PM »

The nano's specs are better than the pro as Alex Atkin UK points out, although from some tests I'm seeing on YouTube at the expense of range.

I saw that too, but I think this is mostly a problem in places like the US where bigger houses are more common.

I've been really impressed with the speed of mine, even as far away from it as possible in the house I get 240Mbit on my phone (tested with iperf3 to my NAS), as long as I'm still facing it.  If I add myself as an obstruction too by having my back to it, it drops dramatically to low double-digits, but I'd expect even a Pro to do the same.
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noseypete

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2020, 12:00:52 PM »

Thanks Alex.

Just ordered a Draytek Vigor 2762 router (no wi-fi) and a Ubiquiti Unifi nanoHD access point from Broadband Buyer. They matched the best price I could find anywhere online for the whole basket, and you can speak to actual humans on the phone there. Very helpful, friendly and as I have heard from friends, they offer phone support if you need it. They also pre-configure the AP for you and offer the cloud managed solution for free. Good deal, I think.

Big thanks to everyone who answered my annoying questions. There's some really valuable advice on this forum and it's great to hear first hand accounts from knowledgeable people instead of marketing b*llsh*t or biased reviews on consumer sites. Much appreciated.

Will report back once it's set up!

Pete
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noseypete

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2020, 01:01:21 PM »

So, I've got the draytek and the nanoHD set up...

My wireless speeds are sooooo much better than with the plusnet router. No stalling, no lag. Handles multiple devices with ease. Transfer speeds are great and seem rock solid. Did some speed tests with iPerf and the cabled speeds are actually a tad slower, but not significantly. Speed to the outside world is about the same as what I was getting with the plusnet router, but I've not tried fiddling with SNR yet.

Range of the nanoHD is not significantly better than the plusnet router, which surprised me, and is a bit disappointing. But I need to experiment with its positioning and settings as I'm sure this can be improved with some tinkering.

Thanks again all for your recommendations.

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PhilipD

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2020, 06:23:24 PM »

Hi

So, I've got the draytek and the nanoHD set up...

My wireless speeds are sooooo much better than with the plusnet router. No stalling, no lag. Handles multiple devices with ease. Transfer speeds are great and seem rock solid. Did some speed tests with iPerf and the cabled speeds are actually a tad slower, but not significantly. Speed to the outside world is about the same as what I was getting with the plusnet router, but I've not tried fiddling with SNR yet.

Range of the nanoHD is not significantly better than the plusnet router, which surprised me, and is a bit disappointing. But I need to experiment with its positioning and settings as I'm sure this can be improved with some tinkering.

Thanks again all for your recommendations.

Have you got your nano ceiling mounted?  If not it is unlikely to perform much better range wise than any other access point.  It is the fixing location of ceiling access points that improve the range/signal, internally they are little different to any other Wi-Fi router.  I'm also not a fan of the Uni-Fi access points, it's built cheap and runs hot, is hard to manage as a single device (needs software installed on a PC) and I didn't find them reliable, so got rid.  There is a review here comparing the build quality https://sviko.com/t/review-of-the-solution-for-small-office-from-zyxel-zywall-vpn-gateway-vpn2s-and-the-access-point-nwa1123-acv2/81/4 of a Uni-fi access point and a ZyXel.  Night and day build quality wise and the prices are not that different.

Regards

Phil

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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2020, 07:51:51 PM »

Hi

Have you got your nano ceiling mounted?  If not it is unlikely to perform much better range wise than any other access point.  It is the fixing location of ceiling access points that improve the range/signal, internally they are little different to any other Wi-Fi router.  I'm also not a fan of the Uni-Fi access points, it's built cheap and runs hot, is hard to manage as a single device (needs software installed on a PC) and I didn't find them reliable, so got rid.  There is a review here comparing the build quality https://sviko.com/t/review-of-the-solution-for-small-office-from-zyxel-zywall-vpn-gateway-vpn2s-and-the-access-point-nwa1123-acv2/81/4 of a Uni-fi access point and a ZyXel.  Night and day build quality wise and the prices are not that different.

Regards

Phil

I can understand the standalone issue, I had to install Unifi to enable 160Mhz channel width.  But on the other hand, Unifi is an amazing piece of software.  I just discovered it logs every AP it sees, absolutely fascinating as I had no idea so many modern cars had built-in WiFi which I can only assume its picking up from the nearby dual carriageway.  Its logged 900+ APs which really drives home why WiFi is so horrible for gaming, as it can be tanked for a second or two just from someone driving past your house.

As for the build quality, that's partly subjective as just because a unit uses minimal parts, doesn't mean in real-world terms is any worse than something heavily overbuilt.  The nanoHD specifically is designed to be as small as possible for aesthetic reasons and always seems to be barely tepid to the touch, although I've never checked under load.
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burakkucat

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2020, 09:56:40 PM »

. . . Unifi is an amazing piece of software.  I just discovered it logs every AP it sees, absolutely fascinating as I had no idea so many modern cars had built-in WiFi which I can only assume its picking up from the nearby dual carriageway.  Its logged 900+ . . .

Did you note the band being used?

I suspect only 2.4 GHz usage was visible, as I wouldn't expect 5 GHz to pass from a car, through the fabric of your home, to your AP.
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PhilipD

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Re: Plusnet router replacement recommendations please
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2020, 08:30:36 AM »

I can understand the standalone issue, I had to install Unifi to enable 160Mhz channel width.  But on the other hand, Unifi is an amazing piece of software.  I just discovered it logs every AP it sees

Not a unique thing, the ZyXEL I have does the same thing, only you don't a software package on your PC to see it :-) 

Quote
As for the build quality, that's partly subjective as just because a unit uses minimal parts, doesn't mean in real-world terms is any worse than something heavily overbuilt.  The nanoHD specifically is designed to be as small as possible for aesthetic reasons and always seems to be barely tepid to the touch, although I've never checked under load.

Not true that it is subjective, I've designed and built PCBs and circuits, I know what I see.  Nothing about minimal parts is the issue, it was other problems, clearly it was built cheap, certainly the model I was using.  No heat-sinks on mine, their heat sink design was to add a thick soft heat-sink pad to bridge the gap on the back of the circuit board behind each LSI onto the plastic case!  Worse though, in the factory none of these pads were lined up correctly on mine, one missed the silk screened location on the PCB completely, probably quite hard to line up quickly in a typical sweatshop Chinese factory.  The back of the device, that would in most installations be flush up against a foam (so insulating) ceiling tile, had a couple of 'hot spots' because of course the heat can't dissipate in plastic.  The plastic case is as cheap as it could be and just clips together (saves money in the factory).  The blue LED for the light piped ring was being over driven because they only use one LED (cost thing again to save pennies) so after several months of 24/7 operation that started to dim.  Nothing about it was designed to last.  There may be improvements with their other models but it is clear they build for cheap and not quality.

The money basically is going on the software, and even that isn't great, I got fed up with every few weeks when I wanted to get at the access point settings that I had to update it, update yet again the firmware on the access point (they never have stable firmware), then update Java because that was complaining it was out of date.  The UI was horrible, it was over complicated and even then many settings available on cheaper consumer kit for the AP were completely missing.  Fancy requiring Java just to access some AP settings, some companies ban Java for security reasons! Had a whole set of hassles when I moved to a new computer then suddenly realised I couldn't 'manage' the access point. Just far too much work for one or two access points on my own home.

Uni-fi almost has a cult following, presumably because it is the poor companies 'Cisco' of kit and everyone want's to believe it is just as good.

I also tried one their routers, just as bad, could have fried an egg on it and just as cheaply made, even though it was quite expensive, sent it back.

Regards

Phil
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