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Author Topic: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?  (Read 893 times)

IBeAdam

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Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« on: January 24, 2020, 08:29:17 PM »

Hi all,

I’m currently on the Radnage 7 cabinet for VDSL (FTTC), using IDNet as my ISP.

If I was to switch to Zen for both internet and phone is anything done physically at either the cabinet or exchange?

Currently I have an intermittent line fault which unfortunately is not bad enough for the ISP to agree to an engineer callout to the cabinet/exchange to diagnose. All local/internal equipment has been checked/replaced. I believe moving may be a way of getting it fixed if a physical switch is done, if you follow me.

Thanks all!
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Ronski

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2020, 09:11:10 PM »

Nothing is changed at the cabinet, you will still be on exactly the same line from the cabinet to your home.

If you want to change line, take out a new line, cancel the other one afterwards. Risk is the new line could be worse, and there could be costs involved.
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Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 390/36  ;D

Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2020, 10:49:25 PM »

Then again, a change in ISP at least means a clean slate in support.  They may be more willing to look into the issue as you're a new customer.
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IBeAdam

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2020, 10:25:07 AM »

Thanks all.

Might be worth a shot, at the very least I'll be paying £15/month less for an equally broken line ;)

Amazing my current ISP doesn't consider a drop in noise margin to 2db, 150,000,000 FECs a day, 15,000 CRCs, 1 or 2 line drops and intermittent inability to get an outside line (dial-tone won't break) as a fault worthy of investigation. "Just live with it".
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Weaver

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2020, 10:59:02 AM »

If your line is broken then Andrews and Arnold will fix it for you : https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/we-will-fix-your-line/
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IBeAdam

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2020, 11:09:34 AM »

If your line is broken then Andrews and Arnold will fix it for you : https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/we-will-fix-your-line/
That looks very promising - thanks! Not cheap, but then I'm prepared to pay for a fix (just not a no fix!).

My phone line is also currently with IDNet. It appears for A&A they don't take on the phone line, so I would be better moving that first - perhaps back to good old BT?
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Weaver

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2020, 11:23:40 AM »

AA recommend people consider porting their phone number over to their own VoIP service.

Have a chat with them. They’re really friendly. They’ll tell you what’s what.
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IBeAdam

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2020, 11:24:55 AM »

AA recommend people consider porting their phone number over to their own VoIP service.

Have a chat with them. They’re really friendly. They’ll tell you what’s what.
Thank you - this seems a way forward :)
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Weaver

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2020, 11:49:21 AM »

We have quite a few Kitzens who are Zen users or AA users. Zen is a good ISP too; I was a Zen user and very happy with them but AA won out for me.
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j0hn

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2020, 12:08:43 PM »

Amazing my current ISP doesn't consider a drop in noise margin to 2db, 150,000,000 FECs a day, 15,000 CRCs, 1 or 2 line drops and intermittent inability to get an outside line (dial-tone won't break) as a fault worthy of investigation. "Just live with it".

From what you mention in the above post the ISP would only consider the voice/dial tone an issue.

150,000,000 FEC per day is around 100,000 a minute.
I got that all the time and others get considerably more.
FEC's are errors that didn't happen.

15,000 CRC's is hard to tell if it's an issue.
1 CRC can make 1 ES.
100 CRC's can be 1 ES.
ES is a much better indicator of line issues.

A drop in noise margin to 2dB is perfectly acceptable. That's the whole point in having a margin, it's meant to have the ability to fluctuate up and down.
My line regularly ran at under 1dB and occasionally with a negative dB.

None of the above are service affecting and are just part of VDSL. Without monitoring stats you would never notice high FEC, CRC or low SNRM.

Concentrate on the line drops and any dial tone issues. These are service affecting and any ISP should act on the dial tone issues.
1 or 2 resyncs a day isn't a huge amount although I understand the frustration it causes.

Can you let us know the daily ES numbers?

I'd take Ronski's advice.
If you are out of contract of near the end of it, order a 2nd line and when it's live cancel the 1st.
This gives a new line, on a new port on the DSLAM.

Any migration will be the exact same line connected to the exact same equipment and what you describe doesn't sound like an easy issue to track down.
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IBeAdam

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2020, 12:44:48 PM »

Hi Thanks for the helpful reply.

This isn't frustration aimed at your (helpful) post, but at the situation...

I haven't posted the full history of the issue, stats and what I've done in terms of diagnosis in this thread, but suffice it to say the issue has been going on since October 2019. Prior to that I had a stable connection (more or less, I'm not expecting perfection) for three years prior.

I understand no line is perfect, but after several years one builds up a profile for a particular line. If this profile dramatically changes overnight then something is wrong.

I have spent many many hours and £100+ following everything the ISP has asked of me. This has ruled out an internal issue.

I absolutely get I should be changed if the issue belongs within my realm. What I am not happy for is if an engineer to comes out, doesn't bother to check the cabinet/pole/exchange and simply says my connection is fine. I'm also not happy for the ISP to simply say "live with it" for £47/month. Not being able to (sometimes) make outgoing calls and multiple drops on a line that was stable is not normal.

BTW, about 500 ES errors a day.
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Weaver

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2020, 01:20:58 PM »

AA is very dedicated to getting lines fixed and they understand what it means to have a line working 100% not 95% working or working-ish. They can continually see what the line is doing thanks to their continuous quality monitoring graphs.

I have several episodes of lightning damage in the past few months. One of these caused extensive damage across the entire area and many users were down for well over a week, but I never lost service as I have multiple AA DSL lines  some of my lines sailed on ok and I also have AA failover to 3G too. I contacted AA that night, next morning BTOR was called out and they had one of my damaged lines fixed that afternoon.
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IBeAdam

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2020, 08:44:31 PM »

Thank you all, I'm going to call A&A tomorrow. Also interested in their VOIP solution as I'd rather have phone/internet with one provider, additionally BT is rather expensive if using them just for phone.

As an aside, today I re-wired everything (for the umpteenth time) adding a Tacima 6 Way Mains Conditioner and also my fourth modem (a Zyxel VMG1312-B10A).

As expected, no difference (3 drops today without warning) but the Zyxel does get a slightly higher rate sync, so I thing will work brilliantly on a non-fault line.

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jelv

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2020, 09:46:59 PM »

I use A&A for broadband and Pulse8 for the line rental as they only charge £14.40 (inc.VAT) - also they charge to the second with no setup fee and only 1p per minute for landline calls at peak times.
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Line rental: Pulse8, Broadband: AAISP Home::1 FTTC 80/20, Mobile: id Mobile

IBeAdam

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Re: Switching ISP - does anything get PHYSICALLY changed?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2020, 07:57:34 AM »

Just to update - I've initiated a migration to A&A, set for a couple of weeks. I'm also going to try their VOIP solution so transferring the phone too.
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