Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[IBeAdam]

[Moderator note. This topic has been split off from Oldjim's topic titled "FEC Errors with G.INP and interleave depth 4".]

I know it's an old thread, but was any resolution ever found?

I have a Billion 8800NL V1, which has been fine for 2+ years. In the last couple of months I've been getting daily (sometimes 2-3 times) disconnects.

I've gone through the usual things - cables, filters, moving powered devices away etc etc but nothing seems to be helping.

The symptoms are exactly as here - nice stable line (SNR level) but randomly a burst of millions of FEC's until it loses sync, or DLM kicks in overnight - every night!

My ISP says the line is "fine" and so refuses to send out an engineer without charge.

Stats after today latest resync

Code: [Select]

DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc01c (192.28) / v0xc01c
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24m
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  3 hours 8 min 49 sec
Resyncs:                1 (since 18 Jan 2020 09:22:31)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  27.3 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 28834 2859
SNR margin (dB):        6.6 6.4
Power (dBm):            10.8 5.9
Interleave depth:        8 1
INP:                    43.00 0
G.INP:                  Enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        1 (VECT_FULL)

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0019 0.0003
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                6.45 2.93
FECs over the last few days

Code: [Select]

Total time = 3 days 20 hours 49 min 9 sec
FEC:            2501865771              345
CRC:            9132            303
ES:             405             212
SES:            183             0
UAS:            1226            1120
LOS:            6               0
LOF:            9               0
LOM:            0               0
Please see attachment for the spike just before the last resync.

Any help appreciated  - I'm at my wits end!

[j0hn]

Do you use Homeplugs/Powerline adapters? They caused similar on my line.

Was there an ES or SES spoke at the same time?
Your ES and SES numbers are a little high for having G.INP and only 3 days uptime.

My advice is dump any Homeplugs, or try a different modem.
Rule out your own equipment.

Edit: just noticed this is 1 of Oldjim's old threads. He has sadly passed away since making this thread.

[IBeAdam]

Do you use Homeplugs/Powerline adapters? They caused similar on my line.

Was there an ES or SES spoke at the same time?
Your ES and SES numbers are a little high for having G.INP and only 3 days uptime.

My advice is dump any Homeplugs, or try a different modem.
Rule out your own equipment.

Edit: just noticed this is 1 of Oldjim's old threads. He has sadly passed away since making this thread.

Sorry to hear about Oldjim.

Internet went down while trying to reply to this - that's three times today.

This time as I was in I tried a quiet line test, and couldn't even get a dialling tone. Tried for 5 minutes before the phone line (and internet) came back up. That's got to be a line issue surely?!

(ps no homeplugs. Had some in the past but removed them, just in case.)

[Alex Atkin UK]

Definitely sounds like a physical line issue.

[IBeAdam]

Definitely sounds like a physical line issue.

Thanks.

And thanks for letting me re-open this old thread. The symptoms sounded almost identical (hence not starting a new thread), but like so many things the issue may well be different.

[kitz]

That does seem like an exceedingly high and sudden jump of FEC's.   I am surprised that the ISP can't see those from a line test - although to be fair, not all of them look at errors. 

The fact that the phone line was unavailable too suggests perhaps a High Open fault usually caused by an oxidised joint. 

[IBeAdam]

Here is the latest graph



I swapped the Billion 8800NL to a spare Huawei HG612 which does seem to hang on to the connection a bit better (from the limited time its been up). Still seeing the same bursts of noise though.

During these periods of noise I cannot dial out with the land line. The dial tone never goes away and no connection can be made. I've tried three different phones (including a corded one) and via the master socket and test socket (via microfilter).

My ISP simply say the line test comes back OK. They will ask Openreach to send out an engineer on my request, but i'll be charged if no fault found. This is very likely as its so intermittent!! They also need me to be present, although I've asked them to check the exchange/cabinet first - no can do.

Any suggestions? I'm out of ideas!

[mofa2020]

Here is the latest graph



I swapped the Billion 8800NL to a spare Huawei HG612 which does seem to hang on to the connection a bit better (from the limited time its been up). Still seeing the same bursts of noise though.

During these periods of noise I cannot dial out with the land line. The dial tone never goes away and no connection can be made. I've tried three different phones (including a corded one) and via the master socket and test socket (via microfilter).

My ISP simply say the line test comes back OK. They will ask Openreach to send out an engineer on my request, but i'll be charged if no fault found. This is very likely as its so intermittent!! They also need me to be present, although I've asked them to check the exchange/cabinet first - no can do.

Any suggestions? I'm out of ideas!

Did you try on the test socket directly without microfilter? may be it is the broken thing, unplug anything from master socket and just connect router to the test socket directly if things seems ok leave it connected for a while (sacrifice the phone) then connect the phone to the test socket without microfilter (most modern phones can run without one).

[4candles]

That's triggered a memory @mofa2020.
About ten years ago I had the same symptoms. After swapping router, cables, filters etc, nothing made any difference, until I changed the master socket.
The original tested fine with a multimeter, but the problem never returned.

[IBeAdam]

Morning all,

The master socket was swapped out a couple of week ago - new mk5. Before that I'd tried two different filtered faceplate and two different microfilters. I don't have any internal extensions, although I am now trying an extension cable allowing the DECT phone base-station to be connected further away - just in case!

An engineer will have to wait until next week as too busy work-wise to take more time off.

I have swapped the Billion 8800NL (which has been working great for years) for an old HG612. This is the third modem I've tried (the other being a Draytek Vigor 130).

The HG612 appears to hold on to connection with a much lower noise margin. It also shows SNR margin fluctuations, where as the Billion was almost always level. Far less FEC error that the billion (although still lots of spikes).

I still don't think this is local interference, but a line problem which I'm seeing. I still cannot always get an outside line - dial tone never stops. Really intermittent though.

Last 24 hours. Line drop around 10pm and again around 2am (DLM). Still not managed more than 2 days without drop in the last 3 months.


Here's DSLStats SNRM last two days


Far lower margin, it was near 6db for ages before plummeting to just over 2.5 and only recovering to 3. You can also see the line drop at 10pm and the resync at 2am.

Latest sync stats:

Code: [Select]

Stats summary

Stats recorded 22 Jan 2020 07:35:31

DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc01c (192.28) / v0xc01c
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  5 hours 35 min 42 sec
Resyncs:                3 (since 19 Jan 2020 10:03:56)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  27.0 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 28995 3289
SNR margin (dB):        3.9 6.4
Power (dBm):            11.0 7.3
Interleave depth:        4 1
INP:                    55.00 0
G.INP:                  Enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        1 (VECT_FULL)

RSCorr/RS (%):          5.3182 0.0001
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0.79 0.40
Connection stats

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 3289 Kbps, Downstream rate = 28400 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 3289 Kbps, Downstream rate = 28995 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 3.9 6.4
Attn(dB): 27.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 11.0 7.3
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 227 95
M: 1 1
T: 0 39
R: 10 8
S: 0.2501 0.9224
L: 7613 902
D: 4 1
I: 238 104
N: 238 104
Q: 4 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 70 0
TxQueue: 14 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 14 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 90 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 10.6667 0.0000
L: 24 0
D: 1 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 374079
OHFErr: 3 2
RS: 320875640 1432051
RSCorr: 17064785 1
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 1253976 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 7523487 0
RSCorr: 5899 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 8193192 0
rtx_c: 5135692 0
rtx_uc: 276565 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 2987 0
minEFTR: 28768 0
errFreeBits: 317796144 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1107707941 0
Data Cells: 7268486 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 156 104
SES: 101 0
UAS: 664 584
AS: 20142

Bearer 0
INP: 55.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 9.02
OR: 0.01 28.35
AgR: 29058.99 3317.50

Bearer 1
INP: 2.50 0.00
INPRein: 2.50 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 47.81 0.01
AgR: 47.81 0.01

Bitswap: 9244/10356 6/6

Total time = 1 days 21 hours 58 min 0 sec
FEC: 86932270 240
CRC: 6242 169
ES: 156 104
SES: 101 0
UAS: 664 584
LOS: 3 0
LOF: 6 0
LOM: 1 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 0 sec
FEC: 345945 0
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 322881 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 58 min 0 sec
FEC: 52964968 31
CRC: 1088 25
ES: 26 14
SES: 20 0
UAS: 334 320
LOS: 2 0
LOF: 5 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 20064129 118
CRC: 4595 75
ES: 85 44
SES: 71 0
UAS: 66 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 1 0
Since Link time = 5 hours 35 min 41 sec
FEC: 17064785 1
CRC: 3 2
ES: 2 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#

[jelv]

Do you have a wired phone you could use to take the DECT totally out of the equation?

If you don't have one it's always worth having one for diagnostic purposes (and they will work during a power failure which the DECT won't). They are cheap enough (e.g. https://www.argos.co.uk/product/5529610).

[jelv]

The fact that the phone line was unavailable too suggests perhaps a High Open fault usually caused by an oxidised joint.

A symptom of this can be that if you call your home phone line and leave it ringing for a short while, the extra voltage of the ringing can temporarily improve the line.

[IBeAdam]

Do you have a wired phone you could use to take the DECT totally out of the equation?

If you don't have one it's always worth having one for diagnostic purposes (and they will work during a power failure which the DECT won't). They are cheap enough (e.g. https://www.argos.co.uk/product/5529610).

Yes, I have used a wired phone both directly in the master socket, and via the same extension cable (to test the cable). Did this for a couple of days with no improvement so went back to the DECT as it's easier to use. Also tried another DECT base unit, just in case.

I've tried:

• two different DECT base units
• wired phone
• two different master sockets - original and engineer fitted mk5
• two different filtered faceplates
• two different filters directly in to test socket
• moving dect base unit away from modem using extension lead
• three different modem cables
• different network cables
• three different modems - Billion NL8800, Draytek Vigor 130, HG612
• Two different configurations - preferred bridged mode to UniFi USG but now pppoe (so double NAT) to help rule out the USG
• two different switches (Tplink and now netgear)
• ferrite cores everywhere!
• switching everything else I don't need off
• switching off powerline to garden room (although this is on a different fusebox)
• using APC UPS (usual setup) and directly
• 2 different gangway extensions

All phones exhibit the dial tone won't break (cannot dial out) but it is intermittent. It might work every  time for an hour, and then require 5 attempts to get a call to connect (that's to 17070)
Line drops at least daily without warning.
DLM kicks in at least every two days.

[IBeAdam]

A symptom of this can be that if you call your home phone line and leave it ringing for a short while, the extra voltage of the ringing can temporarily improve the line.

Hi

I just tried this:

1. reconnected wired phone
2. dialled in via mobile and left ringing for two minutes
3. repeated test

The SNR Margin remained pretty constant (3.9 db) but I did see something interesting on the CRC errors graph (attached). Any idea what this could indicate?

Also attached, quality graph - you can see the high latency spike and packet loss during the rings.

[j0hn]

Could you take a pic of you Master Socket and faceplate?

Not been following the forums as much as usual but I've no idea what an Mk5 master socket is.

Last I knew they were on the MK2 of the NTE5C