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Author Topic: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.  (Read 18963 times)

alanbo

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2006, 10:46:46 PM »

Sorry all - it's v.3 of the DG834G I'm using, and the firmware is up to date according to the Netgear site.

I'l lleave resetting the router until BT have been on Thursday.

Attached file is further router stats.

Alan

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tickmike

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2006, 02:14:39 PM »

How did you get on with BT ?.
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BT ADSL2 (G992.3) line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
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alanbo

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2006, 03:18:55 PM »

Hi Michael

Here are the notes I submitted to Newnet Online Support:

notes on the BT engineer's visit:

1. BT engineer plugged his laptop and router into master socket - sync'ed at 190

2. When reconnected I sync'ed at 7200, speed 1300

3. BT engineer disconnected BT line and checked cables in a junction box outside the property then plugged his laptop and router into the junction box - sync'ed at 5500

4. When reconnected I sync'ed at 160, speed 130

5. BT engineer plugged his laptop and router into master socket - sync'ed at 6800

6. When reconnected I sync'ed at 6816, speed 130

7. Reconnected automatically at 7296 about 15 mins later

8. BT Performance test 11.56 20061130:

IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 7296 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 86 kbps

9. BT speed test logged into speedtest@speedtest_domain

The speed test has completed on test server speedtester1.nat.bt.com for user [phone no removed by mod] and you have downloaded a 1.7Mb file at a speed of 129 kilo bits per second (Kbps), your service bandwidth will have been quoted to you in kilo bits per second.

Your IP address is **, your browser is reported as being Mozilla 5.0 and is running on Windows XP


10. BT engineer said these results were inconsistent and the connection was unstable. Said he would check exchange equipment. Said he could not ask exchange to reset the BRAS profile, Newnet would have to do that.

Rang back later to say that he had checked and replaced filters at the exchange and checked connections and there were no problems. Had tested my line from the exchange to the router and said it was capable of 7.2Mbps - i.e my current sync rate. He could not explain why my speed logged into the BT speed test domain was only 129, as above. He said the MSR was set at 2.8Mbps, but could not explain why it was not higher. He said that the line was not capped, but did not check this with anyone at the exchange, and said the profile was set automatically. He said he would have to refer these matters to the "IT people" at Broadband Control who would take it up with Newnet.

So I'm currently back to sync'ing at 7296 but having a speed of 130 again, having sync'ed stably for several days at 2112, and having a speed around 1300.


Since then I've resync'ed at 160, with speed about 90.

 :wall:  Alan
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 09:17:25 PM by alanbo »
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tickmike

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2006, 09:29:19 PM »

Hi Alan .

First Edit your phone and IP Numbers out of the above post before you get spammed.!   ;)

Well it looks like its not your end, I think its about time you give your ISP 28 days to get it sorted and ask for your Mac code and go to another ISP.

I went from BT dial-up (9Kbps) to 'Eclipse' and they said I would be connected in 5 Days, it was 4 days only and I've had no problems at all with them, With my line being 3.5kl today the BT tester gave me 3.5Mb which is not bad, I found "Eclipse" very helpful (with help centre in the uk Not India ).
Dan Hall is my contact at 0800 915 5999    daniel.hall@kcom.com  and he's been very helpful.

From Michael.
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I have a set of 8 fixed IP's From my Eclipse isp.
BT ADSL2 (G992.3) line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet

kitz

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2006, 10:05:43 PM »

Hi

The ISP cant reset the BRAS profile - unless its a stuck bRAS. 
The DLM at the exchange is in control of that, and unfortunately you have no option really but to wait for a stable connection for 3 days before it will increase again.
Even if it was reset, it would only take one poor sync and youd be back where you started.

>> He could not explain why my speed logged into the BT speed test domain was only 129,

The reason for that is because your IP profile (read bRAS) is set as 135 kbps.
Until you get a stable line for 3 full days of higher speeds then that isnt going to increase Im afraid.
I cant believe this is happening on a 7dB line - something is very wrong somewhere.


>>> He said the MSR was set at 2.8Mbps

Thats because during your 10 day training your lowest speed would have been somewhere around that mark.  TBH the MSR doesnt really mean too much in the day to day running of adsl.  That is the least of your worries right now and isnt anything to do with what you are seeing.

>> I'm currently back to sync'ing at 7296 but having a speed of 130 again, having sync'ed stably for several days at 2112, and having a speed around 1300.

Damn..  it would seem that the 160 sync today has immediately affected your bRAS profile and thats whats now limiting your speeds.. and will do for a few days.
Which is a shame because it was just creeping back up again.


>> replaced filters at the exchange

Good call by the engineer, although normally unlikely, it is a possible reason for your symptoms.
This isnt an ISP problem - its something wrong with your particular line, or a local noise problem.


If I were you and you are now syncing at 7296  Id do all I could to make sure that your router doesnt get switched off.
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kitz

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2006, 09:09:25 PM »

Quote
Since then I've resync'ed at 160, with speed about 90.

Sorry just seen that bit.

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :wall:

Needs to go back to BT again :( :(

>> He said he would have to refer these matters to the "IT people" at Broadband Control

Needs further investigation..  its possibly something locally that is causing a huge burst of noise for it to vary so much between so good and so poor.
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alanbo

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2006, 10:20:10 PM »

Sorry about the phone number and the IP address - bad form - but I was too busy  :wall: . I was logged into speedtest@speedtest_domain at the time - doesn't that mean that my IP address wasn't my normal one, as I was logged in to a different server?

I think its about time you give your ISP 28 days to get it sorted and ask for your Mac code and go to another ISP.
Newnet seem to have been as frustrated by BT as I am. Their support centre is in England and over problems like this they phone you, which is a good personal touch.

The ISP cant reset the BRAS profile - unless its a stuck bRAS.
I meant the BT engineer can't ask BT to reset the profile, Newnet have to ask BT.

This isnt an ISP problem - its something wrong with your particular line, or a local noise problem ................. its possibly something locally that is causing a huge burst of noise for it to vary so much between so good and so poor.
- but I get good noise margin readings even at these low levels.

I rebooted the router a couple of times and it's now sync'ing at 6144, but speeds are still about 130, so presumably, Kitz, don't reboot while I've got this sync rate.

 :wall: Well I like playing squash. :wall:

Alan

PS - went down to 1344 a couple of  hours ago:

IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  1344 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 99 kbps


Should I reboot?


« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 12:42:09 AM by alanbo »
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kitz

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2006, 01:24:05 AM »

>> doesn't that mean that my IP address wasn't my normal one, as I was logged in to a different server?

Yep..  its a BT domain one irrc assigned by the BT RAS - and why I didnt bother removing it when I took your phone no out.


>> The ISP cant reset the BRAS profile - unless its a stuck bRAS.

Understood what you meant..  The ISP cant ask BT to reset the bRAS profile unless its stuck - the bRAS profile is dynamic and can change (as you are finding out) every time you sync at a different speed.
By the time it will have been processed.. it will have probably been changed by the DLM anyhow.
It takes the DLM 3 days for upwards and 75mins to go downwards.

>> but I get good SNR even at these low levels.

But how good is good?

The higher the speed you sync at the less your SNR is.
Each time you resync with MAX, the product is designed to run with a target SNR and a margin.
Depending on the target SNR set on your line (default is 6dB), then the DLM will always try and give you the highest sync speed it can whilst maintaining a margin.

Its a bit hard to explain.. but take for eg my own line

I also have a 7dB attenuation line which is close to the exchange.

Im currently syncing at 8128kbps with an SNR Margin of 14dB.

When I synced at 2272kbps my SNR Margin was 31dB
When I synced at 1152kbps my SNR Margin was 35dB
iirc when sync at 512kbps my SNR Margin was 39dB

My target Margin is (default) 6dB..  which means that on this line I have an additional 8dB to "play with" so if I wasnt restricted by 8128 being the max speed then the line would be able to handle even higher speeds.

However, for some reason your line is being problematic..  the DLM will have therefore increased your Target SNR to either 9, 12 or 15 dB.

At a guess your Target SNR is 12dB.. therefore every time you resync..  your router will negotiate the highest line speed it can whilst still having an SNR Margin in the region of 12dB.
This happens each time you (re)connect.

The SNR Margin will then be subject to variations once you are connected because thats what it is supposed to be - a safety margin. Once that margin drops too low then you loose connection.

Hope this makes sense.

Have a read of An explanation of SNR and SNR Margin
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats.htm

Roseway has also written some very good info here
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=147.0
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kitz

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2006, 12:31:28 AM »

>> I rebooted the router a couple of times and it's now sync'ing at 6144, but speeds are still about 130, so presumably, Kitz, don't reboot while I've got this sync rate.

Yeah..  but looks like your line isnt playing ball, and its dropping out on its own accord.  >:(

~ High burst of noise..  and bam your connections gone.
~ Your router tries to resync
~ Noise is still there and the highest speed it can get for your target SNR is say 300 kbps.
~ DLM records that you can only sync at 300 and sets that on your profile

~ After a while the external noise stops..
~ and then your SNR Margin will show on your router as being high..
~ At this point you can reboot your router

~ It will stay like this until the next burst of noise.
~ Only thing is your IP profile has now been set to 300kb and this is going to be the highest throughput speed you can get from speedtesters. :(


Unfortunately because of the way the DLM sets the IP rate (3days up 75mins down) you are going to be continually stuck with a throughput speed based on your lowest sync speed.

You need an engineer to investigate what is causing so much noise on your line.
There is supposedly a trick you can do yourself and thats by using an old MW AM radio..  I dont know much about that Im afraid - that area is more in prof roseways realm. ;)

But the theory being that AM radio signals are on a similar frequency to adsl - infact AM radio signals are one of the culprits for a drop in SNR.  Ive known someone even report problems from what was coming from a taxi-radio.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 12:33:18 AM by kitz »
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tickmike

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2006, 02:10:45 PM »

Alan, looking at your location, do you by any chance live near an electrified railway line ?.
Also do your neighbours have any problems with BB ?.
From Michael.
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I have a set of 8 fixed IP's From my Eclipse isp.
BT ADSL2 (G992.3) line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet

roseway

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2006, 03:54:42 PM »

There is supposedly a trick you can do yourself and thats by using an old MW AM radio..  I dont know much about that Im afraid - that area is more in prof roseways realm. ;)
Flattered though I am, I don't think I can add much I'm afraid. :( It's certainly the case that medium wave radio signals propagate further during darkness, and this can be one of the causes of lower noise margins at night. But I don't think that this is likely to be the cause of such dramatic drops in sync speed. That sounds more like local electrical interference, such as you might get from an exercise treadmill. Have a quiet word with the neighbours perhaps?

Eric
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alanbo

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2006, 08:38:56 PM »

You need an engineer to investigate what is causing so much noise on your line.
Do you mean a 5th BT engineer, or somebody higher up the pecking order? The one who came last week reported back that "there was a problem with my equipment which had not been resolved". Newnet were going to give BT a roasting for this.

do you by any chance live near an electrified railway line ?.
The exchange is 393 m away as the crow flies and just the other side of the exchange from me there is a railway line with overhead electric gantries in a cutting.

Also do your neighbours have any problems with BB
I haven't asked them yet.

I haven't had time to digest all the arguments about noise yet, but it looks like I'm facing the weekend with a down speed of 130.  :no:

Alan
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tickmike

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Re: Tests I have been doing to try to get a better sync speed.
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2006, 12:11:39 AM »

Hi Alan.
I was a scientist with British Railways Research Dept.and one of the jobs we investigated was lots of Television interference (TVI)  with a group of house's near Cricklewood electrified railway line.
After spending Many hours setting up a on site monitoring lab,we did hours of recording because the residents had this problem for a long time and blamed the railway .
Well one day I decided to have a walk around the area and the first thing I came across was a small building with a aerial on it, It was a for pumping waste water and it was this the automatic monitoring equipment that sent information back to control centre  via a radio link that was interfering with all the televisions and not the railway.
Michael
But in your case the interference  ( across many frequencies ) from the overhead electrified lines could in theory cause problems with broadband signal, but it would not only affect you, it would affect a lot of people,ask about see if anyone else has problems near you, and I'm sure that BT would be aware of the problem but may not admit it.!.
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I RECOMMEND TRYING PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxos.com) .
I have a set of 8 fixed IP's From my Eclipse isp.
BT ADSL2 (G992.3) line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet
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