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Author Topic: Future of ADSL  (Read 5135 times)

kitz

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2020, 01:39:45 PM »

Quote
ADSL has a much lower fault rate

Alls thats happened is FTTC has pushed more lines to their limit, but as an offset putting DSLAMs out in the field it will have shortened a hell of a lot of line lengths.   It's a no brainer that Openreach probably do have more faults reported than the 'adsl days', but there are a heck of a lot more people who now have broadband.


For me personally, it is the impact of crosstalk which I've found the most surprising.  From a max rate of 112 down to 65Mb or less if interleaved... and I wasn't even first on the cab.   I can understand some people being confused why they've lost say 20Mbps of speed.
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4candles

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2020, 02:41:37 PM »

In mid December a friend with ADSL2+ had an email from BT Retail advising that his Hub 3 would no longer work from !4 February. They would be sending him a Hub 6, and as a fait accompli, his line would transfer to FTTC at no additional cost.
I'm on ADSL2+ on the same exchange, but have heard nothing similar from Plusnet. Is it only BT Retail doing these "forced" conversions?
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PhilipD

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2020, 05:21:05 PM »

Hi Kitz

Alls thats happened is FTTC has pushed more lines to their limit, but as an offset putting DSLAMs out in the field it will have shortened a hell of a lot of line lengths.   It's a no brainer that Openreach probably do have more faults reported than the 'adsl days', but there are a heck of a lot more people who now have broadband.


For me personally, it is the impact of crosstalk which I've found the most surprising.  From a max rate of 112 down to 65Mb or less if interleaved... and I wasn't even first on the cab.   I can understand some people being confused why they've lost say 20Mbps of speed.

Cross-talk is evil and xDSL for me, you and many I suspect only gets worse with time.  ADSL MAX I saw a continual reduction in SNR margin, then the same on ADSL2+ which reduced my sync speed from around 18 to around 12, and with that reduction saw the connection less reliable with random resync's every few days sometimes, and always at the wrong time!

Moving to VDSL, second on the cab at a previous address was 80/20 with 12db SNR, great I thought, but after a couple of years SNR had reduced to ~6db (could have been a lot worse I guess), I moved before it started to impact sync speeds but again reliability was already affected.  A similar story at a new address despite VDSL having been around for a good few years before I arrived, so I thought any crosstalk would already be there and so it wouldn't really be a changing picture, but no, margin has dropped bit by bit over 3 years or so, along with reliability.  So I think a lot of people are still on ADSL but slowly moving over to VDSL and that is all adding more crosstalk.

Thankfully been able to move to FTTP and leave all that behind me, it feels great not needing to keep on eye on modem stats or seeing an Openreach bod at the PCP and wondering if that's a new VDSL connection and am I going to see a sudden speed reduction along with less margin to ride any REIN events.  Let it thunder all it likes now!

Regards

Phil
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aesmith

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2020, 06:33:15 PM »

I'm on ADSL2+ on the same exchange, but have heard nothing similar from Plusnet. Is it only BT Retail doing these "forced" conversions?

I think this whole "not wanting to sell any more ADSL" must just be BT retail.  Or maybe there's pressure from from Openreach (or BT Wholesale), but only BT retail is paying any attention.  For example I just did a couple of checks at my parent's house, where FTTP is available.  A&A, Plusnet and Zen all offer ADSL (with Plusnet not offering anything else!).
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niemand

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2020, 01:51:08 AM »

Worth remembering that with SOGEA BT Retail are getting ahead of the game and saving themselves pain later on.

The fewer customers they have on WLR the better. They are being very, very smart in doing this.

They are also I imagine getting some sweet volume discounts on mass migration and FTTC.

Wholesale being able to switch MSANs off will make them happy too I imagine. They're paying Openreach for power, space, cooling and copper cross-connects.

Easy to forget that Wholesale are an LLU operator paying Openreach for SMPF ADSL LLU.
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ejs

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2020, 08:10:47 AM »

It's easy to forget or disregard if you think of it as one part of BT paying another.
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niemand

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2020, 02:57:59 PM »

It might be but they, themselves, can't think of it that way and don't.

BT Consumer are I'm sure ahead of the game due to the cascade in status of anchor tenants and providers, however from the commercial point of view even as a separate entity this makes perfect sense.

The only reasons I can think of to sell ADSL full-stop right now are where customers can't get anything else, where a provider is too small to secure any volume discounts and where it's an LLU operator keen to keep populating MSANs.

TalkTalk are still very much addicted to full copper - both at the consumer level selling ADSL and the business one selling EFM.
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Weaver

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2020, 12:24:07 PM »

In mid December a friend with ADSL2+ had an email from BT Retail advising that his Hub 3 would no longer work from !4 February. They would be sending him a Hub 6, and as a fait accompli, his line would transfer to FTTC at no additional cost.
I'm on ADSL2+ on the same exchange, but have heard nothing similar from Plusnet. Is it only BT Retail doing these "forced" conversions?

Does anyone know anything more about this? Forced conversions from ADSL to FTTC or even FTTP ?
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aesmith

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2020, 12:43:39 PM »

One of the documents I saw earlier suggested that ADSL will live on even after voice services are killed off.  I can't lay my hands on the doc just now but it described (and named) the data-only products that subscribers would be migrated onto, supporting DSL but without dial tone.
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gt94sss2

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2020, 12:45:16 PM »

BT Consumer charge the same retail price for ADSL and FTTC lines - it’s hence in their interest to upgrade those on ADSL to faster speeds (in terms of customer loyalty, experience etc.) while benefiting from the wholesale upgrade discounts that OR offer.

They also no longer sell ADSL where faster speeds are available.

As Carl mentions, this also make sense given the pending migration from the PTSN to VoIP etc.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2020, 01:11:22 PM »

One of the documents I saw earlier suggested that ADSL will live on even after voice services are killed off.  I can't lay my hands on the doc just now but it described (and named) the data-only products that subscribers would be migrated onto, supporting DSL but without dial tone.

Are you (accidentally) referring to SOGEA aesmith .... this product is offered as data only (no dial tone), but only via VDSL ??

Not trying to trip you up here mate, just wondering if you've seen the acronym DSL and assumed it to be (A)DSL ???   :)

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/08/openreach-sogea-standalone-broadband-starts-early-market-rollout.html
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ejs

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2020, 01:23:49 PM »

Apparently there'll be something called SOTAP to keep ADSL going for lines that don't have anything else available.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2020, 01:34:06 PM »

Apparently there'll be something called SOTAP to keep ADSL going for lines that don't have anything else available.

Thanks for that ejs ... never heard of it.

Just looked at some internal info and you are quite right, SOTAP will only be available where there is no fibre footprint. Once fibre is installed in that area, SOTAP will be removed.

Hence the acronym 'Single Order Transitional Access Product'. Every day's a school day.  :)
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aesmith

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Re: Future of ADSL
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2020, 08:37:44 AM »

Apparently there'll be something called SOTAP to keep ADSL going for lines that don't have anything else available.

That's the product I saw mentioned, I couldn't remember what it was called.  It was actually a partner document not Openreach themselves which is why I didn't find it again yesterday.  Elsewhere I saw a suggestion that these transitional products might be ceased in 2027.
https://digitalwholesalesolutions.com/2019/09/the-bt-openreach-pstn-and-isdn-2025-switch-off/
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